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  • ♪ ♪

  • ♪ >> Stephen: WELCOME BACK,

  • EVERYBODY.

  • MY NEXT GUEST IS A PULITZER PRIZE-WINNING AUTHOR AND

  • HISTORIAN WHOSE LATEST BOOK IS "THE HOPE OF GLORY."

  • PLEASE WELCOME, JON MEACHAM!

  • >> THANKS, STEPHEN.

  • >> Stephen: JOHN, GOOD TO SEE YOU.

  • THANKS FOR BEING HERE.

  • >> GOOD TO BE HERE.

  • I ALWAYS WANTED TO SPEND MONDAY THURSDAY WITH YOU.

  • >> Stephen: THIS IS A TIME WHEN YOU WOULD PUT OUT THE

  • SEARCH FOR JESUS ISSUE.

  • >> IT WAS HARD TO GET THE INTERVIEW, BUT IT'S GREAT.

  • >> Stephen: AS AN HISTORIAN, I WANT TO KNOW ABOUT YOUR BOOK

  • "THE HOPE OF GLORY," FOCUSING ON THE SEVEN FINAL WORDS OF CHRIST.

  • >> IT WAS THE LAST WORDS FROM THE CROSS, IT'S AN OLD

  • ECCLESIASTICAL DEVICE TO PREACH ON GOOD FRIDAY ABOUT THE SEVEN

  • COMMENTS FROM FATHER FORGIVE THEM FOR THEY KNOW NOT WHAT THEY

  • DO ALL THE WAY THROUGH "IT IS FINISHED."

  • IT'S A MEDIEVAL DEVOTION.

  • I DID IT SEVEN OR EIGHT YEARS AGO AT OUR OLD PARISH IN

  • NEW YORK, ST. THOMAS FIFTH AVENUE, AND IT'S AN OPPORTUNITY

  • ON GOOD FRIDAY TO CONTEMPLATE VARIOUS ELEMENTS OF THE LIFE OF

  • JESUS AND THE MEANING OF THAT LIFE THROUGH WHAT HE SAID IN

  • WHAT IS MOST UNQUESTIONABLY THE MOST AGONIZING PAIN YOU CAN

  • IMAGINE.

  • THE CROSS WAS RESERVED FOR SLAVES AND CRIMINALS.

  • YOU COULDN'T CRUCIFY A CITIZEN IN THE ROMAN EMPIRE, AND WHAT HE

  • MANAGED TO SAY IN THAT MOMENT AND WHAT THE CHURCH CAME TO

  • BELIEVE HE SAID, IT OFFERS YOU A REALLY AMAZING WINDOW INTO WHAT

  • THE MESSAGE OF JESUS WAS AND AS IMPORTANT WHAT THE EARLY CHURCH

  • THOUGHT HIS MESSAGE WAS, AS THEY WERE FACING IMMENSE PAIN AND

  • PERSECUTION AS THEY TRIED TO HOLD THE CHURCH TOGETHER.

  • >> Stephen: SO HOW ARE YOU GOING TO BE CELEBRATING EASTER

  • WITH THE SOCIAL DISTANCING GOING ON RIGHT NOW?

  • ARE YOU CHANGING AT ALL?

  • >> OBVIOUSLY, BECAUSE WE WOULD BE AT CHURCH.

  • >> Stephen: SOME PEOPLE ARE GOING TO CHURCH, THOUGH.

  • SOME PEOPLE ARE DEFYING IT AND SAYING, NO, THE CHURCH SERVICE

  • ITSELF IS PART OF THE RELIGIOUS EXPRESSION AND TRADITION AND

  • THEY'RE NOT GOING TO STOP GOING.

  • WHAT DO YOU THINK?

  • >> BEING WILLFULLY STUPID IS NOT PART OF THE CHRISTIAN TRADITION.

  • JUST DON'T DO IT.

  • THE EARLY CHRISTIANS MET IN HOUSES, THEY MET QUIETLY.

  • WE HAVE A CHANCE TO HAVE THE MOST AUTHENTIC EASTER YOU CAN

  • IMAGINE.

  • IT BEGAN WHEN THE DISCIPLES WERE IN HIDING.

  • THE DISCIPLES WERE SOCIALLY DISTANCED BECAUSE THEY WERE

  • AFRAID THEY WERE GOING TO GET ARRESTED.

  • WE'RE GOING TO BE IN OUR HOUSEHOLDS BECAUSE WE'RE TRYING

  • TO BE SAFE.

  • >> Stephen: YOU'RE AN HISTORIAN AND WRITE ABOUT

  • PRESIDENTS.

  • WHAT DO YOU MAKE OF THE PRESIDENT'S RESPONSE TO THE

  • CORONAVIRUS PANDEMIC SO FAR?

  • THIS IS A GREAT CRISIS, THIS IS A GREAT MOMENT, AND IN GREAT

  • MOMENTS, GREAT LEADERS RISE TO THE OCCASION.

  • DO YOU THINK HE'S RISEN TO IT?

  • >> NO, I DON'T.

  • I THINK THIS IS WHY WE HAVE A PRESIDENT, THIS IS WHY WE HAVE A

  • FEDERAL GOVERNMENT, THIS IS WHY WE HAVE A SOCIAL CONTRACT, YOU

  • KNOW, THAT WE SURRENDER CERTAIN RIGHTS IN ORDER TO BE SAFE IN

  • GREATER NUMBERS.

  • THE PRESIDENT IS SO INTENT ON JUSTIFYING EVERYTHING HE'S DONE

  • THAT HE'S ACTING MORE LIKE A CHURLISH MONARCH THEN A LEADING

  • FIGURE IN A DEMOCRACY.

  • >> Stephen: I WISH MORE OF MY GUESTS USED THE WORD "CHURLISH."

  • ( LAUGHTER ) >> WELL, HERE'S WHAT I THINK, IF

  • THERE WERE ANY WAYS TO DO THIS, WE SHOULD HAVE AN AVENGER'S TEAM

  • OF PRESIDENTS.

  • >> Stephen: IF WE COULD HAVE "THE" PRESIDENT FOR THIS MOMENT

  • NOW?

  • >> IT WOULD BE AN AVENGERS TEAM.

  • IT WOULD BE FRANKLIN ROOSEVELT WITH HIS SENSE OF HOPE AND BOLD,

  • PERSISTENT EXPERIMENT TAKE.

  • F.D.R., BRILLIANT, SAID ABOVE ALL, TRY SOMETHING.

  • TRY A METHOD.

  • IF IT FAILS, ADMIT IT FRANKLY AND TRY ANOTHER.

  • BUT ABOVE ALL TRY SOMETHING, AND DON'T DEFEND EVERYTHING I'VE

  • EVER DONE.

  • HE'S ALSO SAID, I'M LIKE A BASEBALL PLAYER.

  • IF I COULD GET A HIT EVERY COUPLE OF TIMES I WAS AT BAT, I

  • WOULD BE A HALL OF FAMER.

  • SO IF HE COULD HAVE AN F.D.R.

  • IF WE COULD HAVE LYNDON JOHNSON WHO COULD MAKE THE PRIVATE

  • SECTOR DO EXACTLY WHAT HE WANTED THEM TO DO, AND IF WE COULD HAVE

  • BARACK OBAMA WITH THE DEVOTION TO SCIENCE AND FACT, IF YOU

  • COULD HAVE THAT TEAM AT THIS MOMENT WE WOULD BE IN BETTER

  • SHAPE.

  • >> Stephen: AND HARRY TRUMAN FOR THE CLAUSE.

  • VERY FEW PEOPLE KNEW THAT.

  • WOULD YOU BE INTERESTED IN WRITING A BIOGRAPHY ABOUT

  • PRESIDENT TRUMP?

  • YOU'VE WRITTEN SO MANY GREAT PRESIDENTIAL BIOGRAPHIES.

  • >> THANK YOU.

  • THE THING ABOUT TRUMP THAT INTERESTS ME MORE THAN TRUMP IS

  • WHAT HE SAYS ABOUT US.

  • WHY HAVE SO MANY AMERICANS SURRENDERED THEMSELVES TO THIS

  • FIGURE OF -- HE'S WEAPONIZED NARCISSISM IN A WAY THAT I THINK

  • IS SHAPING ALL OF US FOR THE ILL, I REALLY DO, AND I'M NOT A

  • PARTISAN.

  • I'M NOT A REPUBLICAN, I'M NOT A DEMOCRAT.

  • I LIVE IN TENNESSEE, SO WHEN I SAY I HAVE CONSERVATIVE FRIENDS,

  • THAT'S REDUNDANT.

  • THIS IS NOT A CRAZY LEFTY THING TO SAY.

  • AS A CLINICAL MATTER, IF WE'RE GOING TO BE DRIVEN BY REASON AS

  • OPPOSED TO PASSION, A REASONABLE PERSON, LOOKING AT THE WAY THE

  • PRESIDENT HAS ACTED, WOULD FIND HIM REMARKABLY UNCOMMENSURATE

  • WITH THE TASK OF THE PRESIDENCY.

  • I DON'T THINK I COULD WRITE ABOUT HIM BECAUSE FIRST OF ALL I

  • DON'T KNOW HOW MUCH THERE IS THAT WE DON'T KNOW, BUT I AM

  • INTERESTED IN WHY SO MANY OF US HAVE SUSPENDED OUR BETTER

  • JUDGMENT AND OUR BETTER ANGELS IN THIS MOMENT.

  • >> Stephen: WELL, JOHN, THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR BEING HERE.

  • GOOD TO SEE YOU AGAIN.

  • >> THANK YOU, SIR.

  • HAVE A HAPPY EASTER.

  • >> Stephen: HAVE A HAPPY EASTER YOURSELF.

  • "THE HOPE OF GLORY" IS AVAILABLE NOW.

  • JON MEACHAM EVERYBODY!

♪ ♪

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B1 中級

ジョン・ミーチャムは「アベンジャーズ・チームが必要だ」と言っています。FDR、LBJ、そしてバラク・オバマ (Jon Meacham Says We Need An Avengers Team Of Presidents: FDR, LBJ, And Barack Obama)

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    林宜悉 に公開 2021 年 01 月 14 日
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