ジョーダン・ピーターソンがNZの価値を脅かす (Jordan Peterson Threatens Everything of Value In NZ)

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Hi, everyone.
I'm in Australia and New Zealand off to New Zealand in the next couple of days, and I thought I'd bring you up to date with a story that's being breaking their that's of some substantial interest and a certain degree of absurdity.
A group they're known as Auckland Peace Action released a press release on Monday, 11th of February 2019 stating quote Jordan Peterson threatens everything of value in our society, which I had to admit.
It was rather impressive because that's not an easy thing to manage.
Anyways, I'll read you a little bit of it.
What happened after the release was that a journalist shown Plunkett interviewed the author or the spokesperson of this particular press release, and then we had a chance to talk the next day.
And so what you're going to see in this video is me reading the press release.
Then you're going to see Sean interviewing Iris Chris Oh, seaq Hope I've got that reasonably right of Auckland Peace Action, and then you're going to see the full interview that I had with Shaun the next day.
So here goes Jordan Peterson threatens everything of value in our society in the lead up to Jordan Peterson's visit to New Zealand.
We have a duty to condemn his sexist, queer, phobic, racist and deeply reactionary views, says Iris Chris Oh Seaq of Auckland Peace Action Jordan Peterson, professor of psychology at the University of Toronto, turned right wing media celebrity is in New Zealand to promote his book, 12 Rules for Life.
This book, while offering superficially useful life advice to an audience of disaffected white men, promotes a reactionary, misogynistic view of the world utterly in opposition to New Zealand values.
Well, we as a country have many problems.
We can be justly proud of.
Our values of gender equality, egalitarianism and social inclusivity ease as Miss Crazy Zach Jordan Peterson is actively trying to undermine these values.
This is distinctly unhelpful.
I won't read you.
The rest of it, you can find it at schoo politics, if you're interested on now, will turn to Shaun's interview with Iris and his analysis of her claims.
Iris, your group has come out with a press release yesterday that got some coverage saying Jordan Peterson threatens everything of value in our society.
Why?
What is stealing kids to clean their room up represent the end of civilization as we know what I would say.
It's such a telling kids to clean the room is probably not a bad thing.
The issue comes with a set of, you know, pretty far from all that Jordan, because of doing not really.
That's what his books about.
That's what he's promoting on this to her.
These men, I would say Not if you can, like, I mean, if you take a look, some of what's actually see it in his book.
And many of the media comedy has made elsewhere.
That seems quite clear that he has some seriously problematic of years.
91 Okay, so let's see clips begin with the kind of service interview with Camille Paglia.
Um, we're in heat six million seats up.
Well, you know, he believes that discussions of mean he knows how you know he knows where he stands more late because kind of a guest of honor or something is backed by the recent physical force.
His argument is that mean can put, um ah, Men are better at putting barriers around social interaction between each other because there's three implicit and underlying reality that if things get out of control would mean have a conversation.
There is the possibility off physical violence, and he sees that subconscious chick on how far or how, if you like bitchy a conversation can get is tempered by that knowledge I don't see does does that very suggestion or idea which I know a lot of people agree with.
Does that threaten Western civilization in the very foundations in everything of value in our society?
Well, I'm not going to speak about what I want to kick it off with civilization and our women.
Well, that Constitution makes sense.
But if you consider something like, say, I mean, consider basically how that's going, how that kind of statement is going to be raised, I think it's going to be read by means saying we need to think about deny The difference is the biological, and I guess behavioral differences between sixes and we need to talk about these things honestly and openly if we're gonna make progress on some of the issues off gender in NASA.
Safi all right.
But on the cultural Mueller were, frankly, homosexuals are still getting beaten up.
We have ridiculous rates of domestic partner violence.
Frankly, I just just want to check his Jordan Peterson to your knowledge of a beating this wife for beating up a homosexual.
Nor has he ever advocated people beat their wives, obeyed homosexuals.
I don't believe he have.
No, I said that would be a night.
Right?
Can I please?
Um, could I please continue?
Yeah.
So effective Metro's Jordan Peterson has allowed split.
There are many people paying attention to him.
And if you're making statements in such a situation, it is vitally important that you kind of that the statements you make can not be Mr Reed in a such a way as to promote, which is he's hardly responsible for the misreading of a statement says he I would save up.
Look, if you want to make you feel everyone has made kind of if you don't want yes, if you do it repeatedly and you won't replace it looks that talk about things.
You're interested in an open and intellectual.
Why, that's all he does.
Or do you think he maybe Iris?
Do you think he should be shot down?
Do you think his ideas to too dangerous and he shouldn't be allowed to speak in New Zealand.
Fine.
Start.
Believe he should be shut down.
That's why we're not doing that.
The issue, how is there is a set of ideas are it's That's his ideas are rather more problematic.
Which, which ideas?
Which ones?
Per specifically that you should clean your room, that you should hold your shoulders back, that you should take responsibility for your own life, that people shouldn't be compelled by governments to use with its particular words in particular circumstances.
Okay, One of those particular words in particular circumstance.
Yes, I agree.
That would be ridiculous.
That makes the government two four effectively took use government used.
The first government will force to do their best.
But we're just taking our being read into the media, including by some people.
Yeah, well, he can't be responsible for the stupidity of people reading his statement skinny again.
As I'm saying, Do you think that's still enough?
Responsible?
Do you think that I do feel that people are never responsible for things?
Well, yeah.
No, not particularly.
But I'd also say that it would seem to me from my observation of the impact that Jordan Peterson has head on people's lives that it's been overwhelmingly positive for a huge number of people, which is why so incredibly popular.
In point of fact, you can say the same thing about a lot of fascist movements.
They have a very positive effect on the life of meaning.
Young.
Are you saying that he's a fascist?
No, I'm not saying I am saying that here I am saying that he's exploiting a lot of the same kind of exploiting anything.
He doesn't compel anyone to go to his talks to look at his stuff on YouTube as it's exposing anyone.
I'm not think I mean exploiting in terms of he is using the same check like he is using the same basic psychological mechanisms to build a base.
Well, what base?
He's just saying what he thinks and people happen to be interested.
Are you suggesting he's running some campaign to destroy the Western world?
Hardly.
I just I just think that he is a very responsible man who is making it well, let's talk about let's talk about responsibility, shall we?
In your group Oakland P section, you would like people not to go and see, see it in films and you're happy to physically into, say, to stop them seeing sitting films and infect your Wellington branch bought fake bombs to create terror at 2018 at a film festival.
And stop people watching a film about being Gary in Right.
Is that rot iris?
Sexually correct.
So you're putting a very negative spin alone in the world.
Let's just think I was just saying some Thanks, Mike.
So what do you think is a greater threat to our society threatening to plant fake bombs in a movie theater and telling people they can't go and see a movie because your group doesn't like it?
Do you think that's a greater threat to our society than Jordan Peterson bookie out of hall and say, Pay some money and come and see me if you want.
I mean Jordan peace.
Certainly greater.
Fritz.
Imagine a life groups in society, I can tell you that I've got like, I can tell you that what he's saying about trans people that were people about woman I've never seen him say anything negative about woman, trans people or career people.
I've never seen you sing and be your homophobic transphobic or misogynistic, and I believe May I have watched a lot of what Jordan Peterson sees and does.
I've never once anywhere seen him being misogynistic, homophobic or transphobic.
Can you point me to a new example where he has been?
What do you mean, like, what do you mean by an example?
Wear an example where he in any way is misogynistic, homophobic or trains?
Fiber.
So you do not feel that kind of saying You do not feel that effectively saying the woman you didn't just to be clear, you don't feel the thing.
That woman were woman Well, lipsticks work in order to appear sexually provocative.
No, he's not saying that he's never see that what he said IRS.
What he said Iris is if we need to, if we accept it and we've gotta have some rose.
He understands the biology of meaning woman, and he says men need to respect women's boundaries, and he's always very, very clear about that.
But he says, if we're gonna have a de sexualized workplace, if we're gonna have a set of rules, let's be very clear about what those rules are.
He would argue that make up right.
That makeup is designed as a sexual display in its pure.
In an academic sense, people put on on makeup or have traditionally put on makeup as a sexual display.
And he said, Okay, if we're gonna have workplaces, were six in any sort of sort of interaction of that nature between the the genders is off the agenda.
Maybe we need to think about makeup in the workplace.
He is not accusing woman.
He's not slapped, shaming, and he's not sitting there saying Woman, bring it on themselves He's just saying, We need to be realistic about what the rules and boundaries are.
Okay, so a question for you, if you will.
You're so Jordan.
Apparently so.
Jordan Peterson say things which clearly you know what you clearly feel are are not probably we'll know millions of people think is not problematic.
And millions of people think seem to think He's saying stuff that now and said the balls to say for for a while and they're on board with them saying stuff, no, instead of balls to say it's really pretty.
Frankly, that's what I'd say.
Your movement prides itself on doing yes, but we are saying it's simply because no one else had the balls to say it.
We say it because we generate genuinely believe in our political position.
And I'm sure that Jordan Peterson genuinely believes in his.
And actually, to be honest, they seem more strip mainstream and least of a three to society, then buying fake bombs to scare people out of going to see a movie in New Zealand.
So, just out of curiosity, how do you feel about, like, what kind of 60 think, say, Biden are bombing civilians happen society?
Because that's what we wanted me to be a part about.
Okay, Does does you saying Jordan Peterson bombed civilians?
No, I'm know what I'm saying.
Then why?
When we're talking about your press release about Jordan Peterson, would you bring that up?
Well, why do you keep bringing up about Oh, you know, because it's your group that put out the priest releasing that your group that bought fake bombs and said that people shouldn't go and see a movie you didn't like in a free country?
Dear Lord, Well, let me put it this way.
Let me put it this way if you want.
Like, if you're going to look, if your judgment.
Okay, Iris, I might just be suggesting that your priest releases a little bit over the top.
Are you prepared to admit that on the back of this interview, nor simply because I simply because I am living kind of on a fairly daily on a fairly regular basis was the effect of the Georgian peace talks about having on her?
You know, we're getting repeated consistent harassment from rabbit from frankly, from Jordan had the united Jordan pages in vans because they say so.
So Jordan Peters is inciting people to hate on you.
Yes.
He has been fighting people.
Give me an example.
Give me an example.
Okay.
So it's personal.
Okay, So in the wake of a priest, really were frankly, we are currently in Look, we don't really Look, we got on email from I mean, from frankly, what appears to be a white nationalist.
Yeah, everything that we take a look at it suggesting that we take a look at a whole bunch of, well, frankly, nasty videos.
Yeah.
Are they Jordan Peterson?
Nazi videos?
No.
No, they I Okay, So what's he gonna do with that email from the Nazi well effective measures?
that his fan base of the same fan base for something big?
No, I'm part of his fan base.
Another Nazi?
I don't I'm not suggesting that you are, but you're suggesting anyone who is it does.
Like what he sees is a Nazi, it seems.
But I think what I'm suggesting is that he has created a certain but a certain subset of fans which may not be the same subset of Europe, but I'm pretty sure they arms.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Okay.
Yeah.
It's behaving, behaving and, frankly, quite stressful.
And it is the subset of his fans that represent the three to everything of value in our society.
Not Jordan Peterson.
Right?
Right.
But you can.
So why don't you say that in your press release and see that it was Jordan Peterson who represented the three to everything of value in our society?
Because Jordan Peterson is closing for a sense to coalesce.
He is encouraging, but he's not.
He's just saying what I think.
All right, so, just out of curiosity, all right, but where do you draw the line as to what, like, where do you draw the line of the responsibility for what you're seeing.
I mean, surely you can't say Look, you can't say that you're absolutely no responsibility for the behavior of people who'd addictively you know, the behavior of people who listen to them assiduously and take Well, I'd be I'd be more worried about the consequences of buying affect bomb to scare someone out of a movie theater to be on the stars.
You and I said, I think nice noisy on this wood is Well, look, I think we can all agree that better, that that action was foolish.
And first we handled like And as a result of that, you'll notice we have not done that again.
Jordan Peterson, on the other hand, is only doubling down on any of the motor.
All seem to be quite raising a beloved many more resort.
A much wider base of support.
Yeah.
Are you gonna cut protesters visit here and try and protest outside his talks work of any number of things to be doing or you're going to plant fight realms in the place is expecting.
Okay, that's just something I frankly just touching your past sizes.
We've done it once.
I've clearly stated that it was a bad idea, but we don't seem to repeat.
Okay, Yeah, I came my comprising comment.
Look, as far as we're concerned that this thing, we can do it also, the best thing we can do in order to counter activity, to make people aware of water views, are what do you see it and how they behave.
And that's what we're doing.
And all his views are very reasonable and seem to be having a positive effect on the mess of number of people who are saying it because it's the truth.
Iris, I thank you for your time.
That's ours.
Chris Yak of Oakland Pace Action.
So that's that.
The Auckland Peace Action Group did release another press release on the 14th stating.
Auckland Peace Action is issuing a statement to publicly correct the record about a protest action that occurred in Wellington in 2018.
This action occurred at the screening of the film Ben Gurion at the Dark Edge Film Festival, both Auckland Peace Action and our sister organization Peace Action Wellington, opposed to showing of this film as it is subject to an international boycott on behalf of Palestinian civil society organizations at both Wellington and often screenings.
The screenings were disrupted by activists with noisemakers and alarms.
Subsequently, the Dark Edge director alleged that there was a fake bomb at the Wellington screening and this was reported by New Hub.
This was a complete lie.
There was never ever any fake bomb of any sort whatsoever.
Enzi Police attended both protests, and we're fully aware that the items in the theaters were noisemakers, as were the theatergoers.
The theater was not evacuated and no one was arrested.
So it appears that at least a CE faras Auckland Peace action is concerned that Sean overstated the case in that lecture.
In any case, the next day I had a chance to talk to him directly.
And so now we're going to segue way directly into that.
First, let's get the pronouns out of the way.
What would you prefer?
I called you Professor Dr Jordan.
Jordan's find Jordan's fine.
I like it that way as well.
Jordan, my fears Christian for you and the reaction here in New Zealand to the very idea that you're coming here, or that you're fronting on this show today.
I've just got to say and I've watched you for a couple of years.
You are one of the most hated people online.
Why do you think it is that?
Well, I'm you know, I'm hated by a very small minority of very noisy and committed people.
And so they're noisy and committed, and so they could make a lot of racket.
And they are very good at it and awfully perfect, Often professionally trained to do so.
And they're very casual with their What would you call it?
Epithets.
I mean, I was listening to you introduced me and you you listed off about 20 um, terrible things that I might be, many of which were contradictory.
But that doesn't seem to make any difference.
Well, it seems so leery Issue.
You kind of get your celebrity gets co opted from people on all sorts of parts of the political spectrum and extremes of the political spectrum, doesn't it?
Well, I think there's some of that.
I don't know if it gets co opted too much on the radical left.
Let's say although I certainly face the majority of my opposition from the radical left, but the radical right types are not very fond of me either.
There was a new book written called Dietetics by a rather reprehensible individual named Box Day.
And if you want to find out what the ethno nationalists think about me, that's pretty good read.
I wouldn't call it precisely complimentary.
Look on a personal level, and I'm someone who has, ah, fallen foul of the vagaries of Twitter pylons.
But what's directed at you is that a whole different level, Jordan and you have admitted I know that you have or not struggled.
But you admit you have had episodes of depression in your life.
I know people who have been horribly effected by the most minor pylon on social media.
How do you as an individual, take or channel that hatred to Goto and I imagine and affix your family as well?
Well, part of it is that I have a pretty solid family.
You know, I have lots of people behind me, like my wife is firmly behind me without hesitation.
My Children are behind me and they're smart and mature, and my parents are behind me and I have a good set of friends and, um, also, generally, I try not to talk about things that I don't know, something about which also helps so and I'm I'm not impressed with the sorts of ideological positions that have been put forth, especially by the left wing radical types in the universities, and I understand what they're doing and why reasonably well.
And I feel that whatever vitriol happens to be directed at me is trivial in terms of its danger in comparison to the overwhelming social danger that these ideologies are producing, and so better to do something about it now than to wait.
Also in a social media world that is dominated by extremism and high trid in vitriol, people I know who have have watched you literally dumbstruck by your ability to remind civil and to engage in debate without getting angry at those who often absolutely lend best you I think I've only seen there was a debate you did with Stephen Fry, where American Past Ahead ago, and I think I saw some fire there.
I think you were genuinely upset, but you seem to have a remarkable, remarkable ability to play the ball, not the man or woman.
Well, that debate the monk debate that you're doing talking about.
Mostly I was upset about the foolishness.
You know, the person I was debating with called me an angry white man and it just struck me, is so so rhetorically foolish and inflammatory and unnecessary all of those things at the same time.
First of all, he was in Canada and not in the United States.
And those sorts of statements actually don't go over very well in Canada.
And my race had absolutely nothing to do with what we were talking about.
And so it was just the kind of trouble making statements that does nothing but make things worse.
And I'm never happy when I see people behaving in a manner that only makes things worse and so that that and they are right, I felt even.
It's a funny thing I can't say exactly felt bad for him.
But I thought it was so foolish of him to undermine his own credibility in that manner.
It was just this sort of performance that removes all patients, you know, a bad rhetorical statement, an unnecessary racist comment, a rhetorical flourish that had nothing but counterproductive consequences.
As you can see by the YouTube commentary added nothing at all that was productive to the debate didn't address the issues at hand was, ah, cheap method of scoring points.
Ah, way of playing victim.
I mean, it was altogether, um ah ah.
Second, great performance.
And because he had academic pretensions, was a professor.
I have a lot less patience for professors and professional journalists than I do for, you know, other people because well, because they're they're supposed to.
Well, that's their profession.
I thought Stephen Fry was brilliant tonight, the bike to man, and he started out saggy.
Didn't agree with a lot of what you see it.
But he was going to stare next to you and fight your side.
And he also said, I'm the world would be a much better place if everyone was less convinced of how right they were.
Yeah, well, Stephen Fry's really something.
It was a pleasure to meet him, and he's, uh, he's quite the remarkable person.
So that was one of the very good things about that evening.
We're gonna take a break, Jordan.
And then I want to talk to you about an interview I did yesterday.
And if that's typical of the stuff that you get Yeah, that was the interview, man.
We with Dr Jordan be Peter said here on major Talk back in just to see.
And we're with Dr Jordan be Peterson cultural phenomenon and, according to Oakland P Section, the biggest threat to New Zealand's wildlife and civilization that I don't know we've seen since the last earthquake.
They came out earlier this week in through a lot of labels at Dr Peterson and their spokesman, Iris or spokes.
Pierce and Iris came on with me, used today simply so I could ask them to well, provide the proof of their accusations.
I didn't think he did that well, or they did that well, Jordan.
Ah, well, it was quite the remarkable interview.
I think that, uh, I don't know how many people have watched it, but I listened to it.
But I suspect quite a few.
And it's no wonder, because it was It was, um, riel, a feat of journalistic persistence.
I would say on your part, you didn't let your your interviewee off the hook for a moment, and there wasn't much content there.
There was a lot of exactly the same sort of thing that been happening for the last two years.
It's really quite appalling and that what what seems to happen generally in the journalistic sphere on the negative side for me is that there's a list of epithets that air.
It's like all the radical leftists have a list of epithets that are sort of at hand.
Maybe they have them on a little sticky on their computer.
Misogynist homophobe, islamophobes transform.
Ah, bigot racist?
Uh, then there's often some either Nazi.
I don't forget.
You can count on addiction, either location, the bat and or there's Jewish shell, which is another one that comes up now and then.
And the idea seems to be that if you don't agree with what someone says that you just lay out the longest possible list of pejoratives that your imagination, your collective imagination, congenital rate and hope that one of them is sufficiently true in some sense because of something you once said that it sticks and you're done and it's getting downright dull.
I mean, what do you want to say?
That it seems to me that liberal journalists throughout the Western world have been lining up to try and take you down?
Yeah, well, I mean, I've had a fair number of journalists who being supported of supportive of me.
Now, whether or not they are on the liberal side, they're certainly not on the radical left side.
Yes, this has been happening pretty much non stop for two years, and they're basically out of insults as far as I could tell, which in some sense disarms them.
But they're actually getting rather dull to read, because it's always the same old thing angle.
The person you interviewed yesterday did have a new twist, which was greatest threat to the civilization of New Zealand, which was really quite impressive as faras pejoratives went.
All right, so we've dealt with Oakland P Section.
I know you're in Australia now has the If you like the virulent opposition to you, for whatever reason, is it starting to subside?
And I know they haven't been protest, as I understand so far in Australia, there was a few in Adelaide but above 25 they wasn't exactly clear what they were pro testing.
They seem to be more concerned about homosexual rights, which I don't really know what that has to do with me, but it had to do with whatever they were interested in pro testing.
But there was nothing in Melbourne it, although there was quite a large police presence at the venue.
Well, there were a lot of people.
There was about 5500 people, but there wasn't a single protester, and I would say that, yes.
Overall, the virulent CE and also the frequency of the hit pieces in the meat the F is has declined rather precipitously in the last three or four months, and I think it's because well, because it's become dreadfully repetitious and because no smoking pistol of any sort has emerged.
You know, people have gone over virtually everything I've said to students for the last 20 years because almost all of it is recorded and scoured my Twitter feed and my Facebook.
And you know, all the social media platforms that air usable and haven't been able to find anything so far.
That's of sufficient reprehensibility to take my reputation out about the dot so that we had Jordan come on.
Oh yeah, well, it's not just a bit weird, it's it's very weird, but you know, it's not something I absolutely let's say, All right, I want to go back two years and In many ways, I look at you.
And if I was gonna put you in a fable, you're the guy who said the Emperor has no clothes.
The emperor of witness of political correctness of third wave feminism.
Did you plan two years ago to be where you are now?
A cultural for not global cultural phenomenon?
Was it all part of some some clever manipulation off, you know, modern social media?
Or did you just stand up and say I'm not gonna do this?
Well, I mean, I was writing a book and I was hoping it would be successful.
So there was that.
And, you know, I had been experimenting quite substantially with with, uh, YouTube putting my my lectures from the university on YouTube and some lectures that I had done for a small television show.
And they were developing a certain following.
So I had about a 1,000,000 views far before the political controversy hit.
But no, I mean, there's no way of predicting what happened.
It's a completely unpredictable phenomenon, but phenomenon.
But I can't and say that I said what I felt like saying as carefully as I possibly could, and I pretty much had enough of it.
I mean, seriously, I've had enough of it.
And I'm not happy with the radical leftists.
I think the postmodern philosophy is what intellectually vapid, nihilistic, malevolent, destructive, arrogant and narcissistic, impractical as well, all at the same time.
I think that what's happening to the humanities and social sciences is borders on fraudulently criminal.
If it hasn't already passed the line, and I'm absolutely no friend whatsoever of radical leftist utopians, I feel that there's after, ah, 100 years of evidence of complete bloody catastrophe on the side of the radical left.
It's time for us to wake up and notice that something has gone wrong on that end of the spectrum, and I don't see any responsibility being taken for that at all.
You know, I've called publicly for the moderate leftist types who might have some sympathy for to draw some lines.
It's like, all right, we know that things can go too far on the left when, exactly where.
Where is that?
You go too far.
Now, my sense it's with the equity doctrine, which I think is not really emotionally powerful.
Unfortunately, it doesn't have that kick that's necessary to make something really stick in the memory.
But I think the idea of equality of outcome is dangerous beyond comprehension.
Run.
I want to talk about a few things going on in New Zealand, which is, you know, part of the culture war were part of the global community, and we connected online.
First up, we have a Cabinet, the Labour Party, the largest member of Ah, part of our coalition government.
It has a quota, a male female quota for Cabinet posts.
Yeah, what do you What do you think of that?
I think there's absolutely no excuse for it.
I think that it's a it's a you know, the radical leftists are always yammering on about biological essential ism, which they associate with something akin to fascism.
You know the idea that there are immutable biological characteristics that define people, and yet they're the first people to insist that if you're going to have a Cabinet that is, let's say, both competent and representative that you have to divide it according to identity categories and first and foremost, perhaps the ones of of sex and and to pick your cabinet by genitalia is not an acceptable technical move, and exactly the same thing happened in Canada, where 25% of our major parties elected officials were female.
But 50% of the Cabinet members members ended up being female.
And all that means what that certainly means is that the lead, the most qualified people were not selected because it's statistically impossible for them to have been selected.
It was cheap virtue, signaling, and and it's also technically impossible, even from the perspective of the leftist themselves, with their intersectionality, because they insist that people have to be judged in relationship to their oppression on multiple dimensions simultaneously.
And I've done some back of the envelope mathematical calculations.
And if you have 10 dimensions that mark you out, let's say, as in terms of your of the group affiliations that characterize you, then you're the only person like that in the world.
So as you multiply, all you have to do is do the math.
As you multiply the number of groups that have to be given favored status because of their hypothetically oppressed situation, then you make it increasingly impossible for equality of outcome to even be to be something that could be practically implemented without ah bureaucracy of terrifying proportions.
We also have the Ministry of Women's of Phase in New Zealand, and the minister of women's A Feasible.
The minister for woman is she's known, suggested recently that there were too many white old men on boards in New Zealand of private and public companies and just suggested that they needed to move aside so they could be more diversity.
Your response to that suggestion?
Well, what what's her racial and ethnic background?
Just out of curiosity, I think she's born in America.
Julian Gente She's a member of the Green Party here.
Is she white?
Yes.
Well, maybe it's time for her to bloody well move aside and let someone who isn't white have her position.
All right, so I take it you don't agree with Julian?
Jealous lovers also look, they've tried this in Scandinavia, where they put, you know, they put quotas for females on boards.
And part of the idea was that if you did that, that you would increase the rate at which women would move through managerial and administrative status rankings, and that has had zero success.
This suggestion also is Jordan that actually woman can somehow up the financial performance of sure.
That's why you don't believe that states that there's no evidence for that.
What, what What elevates the financial, uh, productivity of companies is quite clear.
Trade conscientiousness, which is, ah, marker for integrity and trustworthiness and diligence, nous diligence and dutiful nous is a very good predictor of long term economic productivity, and so is general cognitive ability, and that holds across sexes and races.
And the reason for that and this is the non racist and non sexist way of looking at the world, by the way, is that there is far more difference between individuals within groups than there are between groups.
Because look, the fundamental racist, sexist, uh, ethno centric proposition is that there are more differences between groups of people than there are within groups of people.
Yeah, that's essentially the racist doctrine.
And so we need some black people because, you know, all those black people are the same.
And unless we have a voice or two from a black person, then we don't have that set of identity issues represented.
Well, it's just simply not the case, because most of the diversity comes at the level of individual personality and temperament, and the literature on that is crystal clear.
You know, these thieves thieves air pseudo intellectual claims made by people on the radical left.
And they're very dangerous because they're easily shifted into the sorts of things that the radical right likes to enjoy, which is Oh, I see there are immutable differences between gender sex is and the races and they're of substantial import and that we, we, we, we we're we need to take them into account.
Would we're, uh uh What?
What would you say?
Formulating such things is immigration policy.
So no, there's no evidence that those claims are correct, and and there's counter evidence for much of it, for so example in Scandinavian.
And this is this is as close to psychological fact as any facts that exist is that as you increase equality of opportunity, which means you open the doors for more and more people and especially, let's say, with regards to sex.
And that's had a big effect because, of course, there's far more women in the workforce than they're in there.
Once was, you increase the degree to which outcomes differ on multiple dimensions, and that's partly there's a variety of reasons for that, at least a dozen.
And they're all important, one of which is that women, especially once they hit their thirties, prefer to work part time.
And that's not bad or wrong.
And it's certainly not an indication of systemic sexism.
So the radical types like to have one explanation.
Everyone isn't exactly the same with regards to outcome.
Therefore, the system is a corrupt patriarch.
It's like you could learn that in one minute in a propaganda course in university.
And then you have an answer for every problem that ever be sets you politically for the rest of your life, and there's no excuse for it.
It's appalling scholarship.
I want to come back to that point.
The other thing, Bill Ah proposed bill we had before our Parliament is the idea of sick self identification to make it easier for people to alter the birth certificates if they choose to identify as anything other than the six they were born.
Is your views on on that's little legislation?
Well, the first thing I would say it might be useful to really ist address some important problems.
That would be the first thing you're dealing with an absolutely tiny minority of people.
Not that that's completely without import.
But the second thing is it has to be thought through, and it's not.
I mean, I don't know if you've bean fall.
Ah, we just having a little pick up there and we're talking to Dr Jordan.
Be Peterson.
He's joining us from Scott from Sydney, Jordan.
We were talking about six self identification changes or proposed reforms.
And New Zealand, you said fiercely.
It's a tiny number of people affected and seeking that you say we need to think it through in what way?
Well, one of the things that's happened, for example, so really, what this is is an attempt by a certain ideological movement to to put forth the insistence that sex is on Lee, a sociological constructs that it's only something learned, and so that it could be changed at whim, which is also a strange thing, because if it's learned, it can't really be changed at whim and also, if it's learned it could be unlearned, which is something that the people who are putting this legislation forward aren't really thinking through, because that opens up the opportunity for people who would like to reform people who would like to change their gender back to, say, normative behavior, because if it's learned, it could be unlearned.
But more importantly, sex rules are not only learned there partly learned, and there's plenty of biological differences between men and women.
And and many of them aren't trivial, like men and women are more the same than they are different.
But the difference is air, quite market at the extremes.
And so what we're seeing, partly as a consequence of this now is the movement of, say, trans women into female sports.
You saw this in Minnesota just the other day.
I think it was Minnesota, where a newly transition Trans woman has bean shattering the weightlifting records for women and ordered We have hinted that you here with a Commonwealth Games competitor.
It was a former mine.
It's absolutely insane, you know?
I mean first, the fact that it's allowed to begin with is beyond comprehension.
It's a real sign of cultural insanity, and the second is that psychologically it's almost incomprehensible.
I can't imagine how you could be a man who transformed himself into a woman in all the ways that that's possible and then decided to go compete in high level sports arena with women who have been training their whole lives to hit the peak of their ability and then tow, absolutely bloody, demolish them, say after a year of work, and then to tout that as some sort of victory for the oppressed.
It's completely what's narcissistic beyond comprehension, and it's it's it's well, it's a sign of what happens when you don't carefully think things through.
All sorts of unexpected consequences tend to manifest themselves, and you see the same thing happening now with rapid onset gender dysphoria and the treatment of very young people with very powerful hormonal and surgical techniques designed to permanently alter their psycho physiological structure.
And, like we're gonna pay for this in a big way in 15 years, when these kids grow up and hit adulthood and start tossing out lawsuits as they certainly will and should, we're going to look back and wonder just exactly what the hell was wrong with us.
So it's, it's it's It's well, it's even by this ideology that, in formulated by people like Judith Butler, who absolutely insist because they have no biological notice whatsoever that all the differences between men and women are socially constructed instead, which is absolutely not true.
True, absolutely.
In General Timms, Jordan.
And we have it in this country.
And indeed, everywhere we look at the millennial generation, they get a bit of stick here they called snowflakes.
They seem to get outraged not only on their own behalf but on behalf of others at the drop of a hat.
And they use social media is elsewhere in the world to call out the things they find offensive or that their feelings.
Do you think there is a collective generational psychosis securing because of social media?
Um, I don't know if the millennial generation is any less saying than the baby boomers.
I mean, the baby boomers had plenty of trouble.
And because plenty of grief and mystery in the 19 sixties and experimented, you know, crazily with psychedelic drugs and a wild lifestyle and promiscuous sex and all of those things.
And I don't think the millennials air any worse or any better, I do think that there is a small subset of them who are rather dependent and rather narcissistic and who are being encouraged in both of those by reprehensible adults in positions of authority, primarily in the universities to make the most of their victimhood feelings and status.
And I do think that the social media platforms also allow for a disproportionate effect of social effect of people who have extreme views that also in combination with the with the increasing death of the of the standard collective media, which is increasingly desperate for attention and so spends more and more attention paying two people who paying spends more and more time paying attention to people who have extreme views on the right and the left might be the exception that proves that you ordered to be honest.
Well, it's possible that, I mean, I've certainly be represented as an extreme figure.
And that's really something that apart from the fact that I'm adamant in my opposition to the radical leftists, which is rather rare among intellectuals, which brings us rather nicely Jordan to what I want to talk about.
I asked people to call in use today, and it was remarkable.
The variety and number of people who sent me messages and rang and said simply reading your book had changed their life And could I just put a call out?
If you want to talk to Jordan, we've got quarter now.
0 808 44747 If you'd like to ask a question or seen the message or just say something to Jordan, you can ring in now.
808.
44747 Jordan.
It also seems to me as much as I see all the hatred against you and the controversy around you online.
Jeez, there's a lot of love here, and there's a lot of positivity, and you seem to be engaging in smiling and with young people.
There's some good stuff happening here, isn't there?
Oh, yeah, wait way more than the like.
The vitriol vitriolic aspect of it is only a sporadic bother to me, usually in the aftermath of a particularly difficult interview with a journalist.
But the tour, I mean, I've bean to about 140 cities now around the world, and the average audience size is what's buried between 2500 and 8000.
Um, I would say an average of about 2500 to 3000 and they're the events are unbelievably positive So most of the time I'm surrounded by nothing but positive responses.
And when I go out on the street now, wherever I go, you know, in a typical our all be stopped by six or seven people, they're usually young men.
Because the media has convinced you were actually going to say yesterday we had justice been a young woman and middle lights woman in middle age mean ringing in.
Well, that's good.
I think that's changed to some degree because of the book.
But all of the interactions that I have with people on the street or in airports or so on they're all incredibly positive.
People are very polite.
They come up.
They're usually apologetic for interrupting.
They introduced themselves.
They tell me that watching my lectures air, listening to the audio or reading the book has changed their life.
They usually tell me a story about what's changed.
They have a better drops.
Do that in real time right now.
Jordan, say hello to write you.
Hello, Rachel.
Oh, cure to Jordan.
I'm very nervous to be talking to you, and I'm gonna not very, very good at being precise and less mature when I keep it very briefing to say thank you is all I wanted to say.
I'm one of the people whose life has been changed immeasurably by your book and your lectures and everything that you stand for has really had a mess of positive influence on May.
So I just wanted to tell you how grateful I s.
So what's changed?
It would take a very long time to get into it.
But I have struggled with mental health issues for the majority off my life since puberty.
I'm duty now, and I've been through every type of treatment, counseling, therapy, medication, everything you can think off and you know it.
Things have helped me briefly for a little while and got beat it and got worse again.
But your book, I guess it's the adoption of personal responsibility more than anything else.
And the more responsibility I take on, the more I find I'm able to and the more unable to get myself out there and put myself in situations I wouldn't have normally had the confidence to.
I'm standing up straighter.
I'm not that great at keeping my room tidy yet, but I'm working on a little thing.
Um everything just by.
But the more I take on, the more the better it gets.
Yes, well, that's a good rule.
That's a good rule.
You know, that's a good psychotherapeutic rule is the more that you take on without overloading yourself, you know, because you have to be sensible about it.
The more you find that you have abilities that will manifest themselves that had been hidden up to that point because of fear and avoidance.
And so more power to you is far.
I'm concerned.
And I'm very glad to hear that what I've been doing has been helpful.
Good on your Rachel marry.
Welcome.
Um, thank you very much for this opportunity.
I'm Dr.
I was staring into the abyss, and no, I'm not.
Um, I moved through my life, Help you sleep, are considered every action and reaction.
I treat myself like I'm someone I care for.
Great.
It's been a revelation to make encountering you.
I was in a very, very, very dark place.
Somehow I found you online, but I looked through Dave Rubin or whether it was Shapiro or or I'm not quite sure how it happened.
But I've seen your lectures off listen to it.
You met of meaning your lectures on geniuses on.
It's just being a remarkable turnaround in my life and my family's life.
And I just want to say thank you.
Hey, man, I'm thrilled to hear it.
So do do you have any sense of what in particular did it?
What was it that struck you?
I think it It was just the purposeful way that you spoke, and it was just such plain English.
It was, as you described previously, that some rules are sort of sort of cliches.
But they hadn't been spoken off in a very long time, and that was the previous quality, that professional responsibility, the the taking care of oneself, and it just struck such a chord.
It was I knew some of the things that you were saying.
I've heard them before, but I hadn't heard them in a very long time.
My father used to say, having a strike with the shoulders bag on, and finally there was a game.
But it was being set in a different way, and it was thinking that you need to know why a That's That's the thing.
And that's what I tried to do with my lectures and partly because I'm a behavioral psychologist is like we have all these more rules and people are told the rules.
But they're very seldom given a multi dimensional explanation of why the rules are necessary.
You know, it's while you should do it, because that's what people do.
Or that's because you know that's what good people do, or it's your responsibility and all those things were true.
But the an explanation of why it's true and how it's related to the responsibility that gives your life meaning and also improves the world, your family and the community, that's that's often lacking.
And so that's what I was trying to provide.
And it is clear and English as clear as I could manage it.
And so you know what?
I've tried to make it practical and useful for people, and I'm really very, very happy to hear that it's worked for you and for your family. 00:54: