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  • MY NEXT GUEST TONIGHT IS A VETERAN REPORTER WHO HAS WORKED

  • AS EDITOR IN CHIEF OF "FOREIGN POLICY," FOUNDED "POLITICO

  • MAGAZINE," AND SERVED AS THE MOSCOW BUREAU CHIEF FOR "THE

  • WASHINGTON POST."

  • SHE NOW HAS A WEEKLY COLUMN AT "THE NEW YORKER."

  • PLEASE WELCOME SUSAN GLASSER!

  • ♪ ♪ ♪ ( APPLAUSE )

  • >> Stephen: GOOD TO SEE YOU.

  • ( CHEERS AND APPLAUSE ) >> Stephen: THANKS FOR BEING

  • HERE.

  • >> THANKS FOR HAVING ME.

  • >> Stephen: I PERSONALLY REQUESTED TO HAVE YOU ON BECAUSE

  • I HAVE READ JUST ABOUT EVERY COLUMN YOU HAVE WRITTEN IN THE

  • LAST THREE YEARS FOR "THE NEW YORKER."

  • THEY'RE ALL CALLED "LETTER FROM WASHINGTON," RIGHT?

  • >> I'M SORRY, I KNOW IT'S A LOT TO TAKE IN.

  • >> Stephen: WHAT I REALLY LIKE ABOUT THEM IS I DON'T THINK

  • THERE IS ANYBODY OUT THERE WHO, "A", HAS THE BREADTH OF

  • JOURNALISTIC EXPERIENCE, WHO HAS TH KNOWLEDGE OF WHAT HAPPENS

  • UNDERNEATH A BURGEONING AUTOCRATIC REGIME, BECAUSE YOU

  • WERE ONE OF THE MOSCOW BUREAU CHIEFS FOR "THE WASHINGTON POST"

  • WHEN PUTIN WAS RISING TO POWER IN THE EARLY 2000s, AND WHO

  • UNDERSTANDS THE NORMS WE'RE LOSING IN OUR GOVERNMENT THAN

  • YOU.

  • I'M NOT GOING TO SAY IT'S A CHEERFUL COLUMN, YOU KNOW.

  • IT'S MILDLY REFRESHING.

  • IT'S 90% WATER, 10% HEMLOCK.

  • IT'S NOT TOO BAD.

  • BUT YOU SAID YOU NEEDED A TERM FOR THE TRUMP EFFECT, THE THING

  • WE'RE ALL FEELING BUT HAVE TROUBLE NAMING.

  • AND YOU ASKED A FRIEND TO HELP YOU-- WHO HELPED YOU COME UP

  • WITH THIS TERM?

  • >> OKAY, SO I HAVE THIS WONDERFUL FRIEND, CASANZA, WHO

  • IS GERMAN, AND YOU KNOW HOW PEOPLE ARE ALWAYS JOKING THERE

  • OUGHT TO BE A LONG GERMAN WORD FOR THAT.

  • I SAID, "IS THERE A LONG GERMAN WORD FOR THIS TRUMP SOUL

  • SICKNESS?" AND SHE SAID, "NO, BUT I'LL MAKE

  • ONE UP."

  • SO SHE MADE ONE UP.

  • ( LAUGHTER ) >> THE SECOND PART IS GOOD.

  • THE SCHLAMASSLE.

  • >> Stephen: WHAT DOES IT MEAN?

  • >> I THINK IT'S TECHNICALLY YIDDISH.

  • >> Stephen: IT'S A GOOD COMBO.

  • WHAT DOES IT MEAN?

  • >> AGAIN, I DON'T ACTUALLY SPEAK GERMAN.

  • TRUMP, YOU GOT THAT, REGNORRAN IS GOVERNMENT.

  • SCHLAMASSLE IS WHAT IT SOUNDS LIKE, CRAZINESS.

  • AND SCHMIRTZ, IS SOUL SICKNESS.

  • IT'S LIKE TRUMP, CRAZINESS, SOUL SICKNESS.

  • >> Stephen: I GET A CONSTANT FEELING IN THE SORT OF GAS

  • LIGHTING OF AMERICA THAT THE PRESIDENT IS TAKING PLACE AND

  • THE PEOPLE AIDING AND ABETTING HIM, LIKE SOME SORT OF SPELL IS

  • TRYING TO BE CAST ON US, LIKE SOME SORT OF WEIRD-- SOMEWHAT

  • ABUSIVE SPELLS BEING CAST ON US SO WE DON'T SEE REALITY ANYMORE.

  • WE'RE BEING DRAGGED INTO HIS INSANITY.

  • WHEN YOU WERE SEEING THE RISE OF PUTIN FROM 2000-TO 2004, WAS

  • THIS HAPPENING THEN?

  • >> YOU WOULDN'T THINK THERE WOULD BE AN OVERLAPPING

  • EXPERTISE BETWEEN BEING IN RUSSIA AND BEING IN WASHINGTON,

  • AND THROW IN A CLINTON IMPEACHMENT-- THESE THINGS

  • AREN'T SUPPOSED TO GO TOGETHER IN THE SAME SENTENCE.

  • VLADIMIR PUTIN, THE FIRST FOUR YEARS, HE DID WHAT ALL ASPIRING

  • AUTHORITARIANS DO, WHAT ERDOGAN DID IN TURKEY, CONSOLIDATE

  • POWER.

  • FIRST YOU GO AFTER THE JOURNALISTS.

  • THEY TOOK OVER THE INDEPENDENT TELEVISION.

  • YOU GO AFTER THE PARLIAMENT, AND YOU MAKE SURE THAT IT'S A POCKET

  • PARLIAMENT.

  • YOU GO AFTER THIS-- AND, YOU KNOW, THERE ARE SOME UNKANE

  • PARALLELS.

  • TRUMP SEEMS TO HAVE THE INSTINCTING OF A NATURAL-MINDED

  • AWE AUTHORITARIAN, EVEN THOUGH WE HAVE A VERY DIFFERENT HISTORY

  • AND INSTITUTIONS AND CULTURES, THANKS GOODNESS YOU.

  • >> Stephen: HAVE BEEN WRITING ABOUT THE NEW PHASE OF THE

  • PRESIDENCY SINCE THE SENATE ACQUITTAL.

  • WHO POST-IMPEACHMENT TRUMP?

  • IS IT REALLY DIFFERENT?

  • MY SUSPICION BEFORE IT HAPPENED, "IF HE ISN'T ACQUITTED, THE

  • GUARDRAILS WILL BE OFF."

  • I DON'T SEE THAT THE GUARDRAILS HAVE EVER BEEN ON.

  • IS HE THE SAME PERSON POST-ACQUITTAL?

  • THAT'S A GOOD QUESTION.

  • I SAW THAT YOU SAID THAT BEFORE.

  • >> AND THOUGHT HE'S GOING TO CHALLENGE ME ON THIS.

  • WHAT'S THE ANSWER?

  • I WENT BACK AND LOOKED.

  • AND WE ARE ACTUALLY, YOU KNOW, THE FROG BEING SLOWLY BOILED.

  • YOU KNOW THAT?

  • >> Stephen: YEAH.

  • >> I THINK WE'RE KIND OF BOILED ALREADY.

  • BECAUSE I THINK WE ARE SLOWLY GETTING USED TO TRUMP DOING

  • THINGS NOW THAT HE NEVER WOULD HAVE TRIED TO DO THREE YEARS AGO

  • WHEN HE FIRST CAME INTO OFFICE TWO, YEARS AGO.

  • SINCE HE'S BEEN ACQUITTED, HE'S ATTACKED SUPREME COURT JUSTICES,

  • GONE AFTER NOT ONLY A FEDERAL JUDGE IN THE ROGER STONE CASE

  • BUT THE FOUR W FORWOMAN OF THE J THE PROSECUTORS WHO RECOMMENDED

  • THE SENTENCE AND THEN QUIT.

  • HE HAS NOT ONLY FIRED THE ACTING DIRECTOR OF NATIONAL

  • INTELLIGENCE BECAUSE A BRIEFING ABOUT RUSSIA WAS GIVEN TO

  • MEMBERS OF CONGRESS, PUT IN SOMEONE VERY UNQUALIFIED FOR THE

  • JOB IN AN ACTING CAPACITY.

  • AND THEN JUST THIS WEEK, HE'S NAMED AS THE NEW DIRECTOR OF

  • NATIONAL INTELLIGENCE, THE CONGRESSMAN WHO WAS DISQUALIFIED

  • BY REPUBLICANS JUST AIFY MONTHS AGO BECAUSE HE WAS LYING ON HIS

  • RESUME.

  • SO THE HEAD OF NATIONAL INTELLIGENCE IS GOING TO BE

  • SOMEONE WHO CAN'T TELL THE TRUTH ABOUT HIS OWN RECORD.

  • SO WE'RE USED TO SOMETHING-- REPUBLICANS ARE NOW ENDORSING

  • HIM FOR THE JOB THAT THEY REFUSEDLY TO PUT HIM IN JUST SIX

  • MONTHS AGO.

  • >> Stephen: IT'S ALMOST AS IF THEY DON'T WANT TO KNOW THINGS.

  • >> WELL, YOU KNOW, I DON'T THINK YOU NEED TO SPEAK TO MOTIVES.

  • I THINK THAT'S ONE THING I'VE LEARNED IN SORT OF THREE YEARS

  • OF TRUMPOLOGY.

  • IT'S LIKE KREMLINOLOGY.

  • YOU DON'T ACTUALLY HAVE TO GET INSIDE THEIR HEAD TO KNOW DOES

  • DONALD TRUMP LOVE VLADIMIR PUTIN?

  • JUST LOOK AT THE CRAZY STUFF THAT THEY'RE SAYING AND DOING.

  • AND SO THAT'S WHAT I'VE TRIED TO DO IS TO WRITE IT DOWN ON THE

  • THEORY THAT 20 YEARS FROM NOW, WE'RE ALL GOING TO BE SAYING,

  • "DID THIS REALLY HAPPEN?" >> Stephen: I HOPE SO.

  • I HOPE 20 YEARS FROM NOW WE HAVE THAT ATTITUDE.

  • THAT WE'RE NOT JUST IN SCUBA GEAR IN MIDTOWN MANHATTAN.

  • ( LAUGHTER ) BUT YOU RAISE-- YOU RAISE A GOOD

  • POINT, RAISE A GOOD POINT THAT WE ARE THE FROGS SLOWLY BEING

  • BOILED AND WE'VE BECOME INURED OF SOME OF THE SHOCKING THINGS

  • THAT HAPPENS.

  • HOW DO YOU MAINTAIN YOUR FRESH SHOCK.

  • METAPHORICALLY I HAVE TO PULL THE CAR OVER, VOMIT INTO A

  • DITCH, SLAP MYSELF ON THE FACE AND GET BACK IN SO I CAN STAY

  • WEAK ON AT THE WHEEL.

  • HOW DO YOU STAY FRESHLY SHOCKED AT IT?

  • >> IT IS KIND OF LOOKING AT THE ECLIPSE OF THE SUN BUT WITHOUT

  • THE GLASSES ON EVERY WEEK.

  • IT'S A REALLY TOUGH JOB.

  • I KNOW MOST PEOPLE HAVE TUNED IT OUT.

  • I UNDERSTAND THAT.

  • IF YOUR JOB IS TO STARE STRAIGHT AT IT.

  • WE FORGET ALL THE CRAZY STUFF, RIGHT.

  • EVEN THE PEOPLE WHOSE JOB IT IS TO PAY ATTENTION.

  • DO YOU REMEMBER WHEN DONALD TRUMP SAID HE WAS GOING TO BUY

  • GREENLAND?

  • >> Stephen: YEAH.

  • >> HE GOES ON HIS RALLIES ALL THE TIME AND HE ATTACKS

  • WINDMILLS AND HE ATTACKS -- >> Stephen: FOR CAUTION

  • CANCER?

  • >> AND TOILETS.

  • HE DOESN'T LIKE MODERN TOILET.

  • >> Stephen: RIGHT.

  • >> AND YOU FORGET THESE THINGS BECAUSE IT'S TOO MUCH TO SAY I

  • SHOULD WRITE ABOUT IT ALL THE TIME.

  • OFTEN THAT IS WHAT I DO TO GET MYSELF PSYCHED UP TO WRITE A

  • COLUMN, I GO BACK THROUGH THE TWITTER FEED, AND WITHIN A

  • SECOND I'M READY TO GO.

  • ( LAUGHTER ) ( APPLAUSE )

  • >> Stephen: SUSAN, THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR BEING HERE.

  • LOVELY TO HAVE YOU ON.

  • PLEASE KEEP IT UP.

MY NEXT GUEST TONIGHT IS A VETERAN REPORTER WHO HAS WORKED

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スーザン・グラッサートランプ氏は自然な権威主義者の本能を持っている (Susan Glasser: Trump Has The Instincts Of A Natural Authoritarian)

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    林宜悉 に公開 2021 年 01 月 14 日
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