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  • welcome to this episode of the Patrick Coffin Show.

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  • So combination dot com Okay, the topic is ah is one I've visited before and and doing so now.

  • And that is tthe e unjust imprisonment of George Cardinal Pell on November 19th the High Court of Australia degree to to take up what will be his final appeal to the allegations that he sexually abused two teenage choirboys in 1996 in Melbourne after mass at the cathedral.

  • Joining me to talk about this is Australian journalists and TV presenter Andrew Bolt, who is here and will be after these short seconds.

  • So happy to, uh, welcome Andrew Bowl to the broadcast.

  • He's an Australian social and political commenter.

  • He's worked at the Melbourne based newspaper companies The Herald and Weekly Times and The Herald Sun.

  • He's currently a blogger and a columnist and host of the popular television show The Bolt Report.

  • Heard each weeknight on Sky News.

  • Andrew, Thanks for coming on.

  • Appreciate it.

  • A pleasure.

  • Thanks for having me pantry This important topic it is.

  • I'm a bit of an outsider not being from Australia.

  • You're certainly an insider.

  • But in another way you're an outsider because people might look at me and they say, Well, Patrick Coffin is a Catholic.

  • He wants Thio protect someone.

  • He looks up to one of the good guys.

  • But you're not a theist or even a Christian.

  • I think that's an important piece of the story.

  • You say no to a lot of people who said So why don't you join the church?

  • I'm saying I'm doing the Lord's work outside.

  • I'm an agnostic, and I hope that would make people think that I don't have a vested interest in some extent in this and that perhaps they should look at the facts of the matter.

  • They're not sort of begin behind ideological, religious strangers.

  • How did you get into the life?

  • Journalistic?

  • I'm reminded when I when I view your content, which I have for a couple of years.

  • Andrew, it's you're an excellent presenter, and I I think you're devoted to the wave, not the way things ought to be about the way they are.

  • You are definitely fact based.

  • I'm reminded of the line from G.

  • K.

  • Chesterton, the great English writer who said he believed in getting into hot water.

  • It keeps you clean.

  • By that standard, you were in a constant state of aseptic purity.

  • I'm very, very pure in day.

  • Sculpted, in fact, should check myself after 1/3 degree burn, right?

  • Look part of it.

  • I always want todo be a writer.

  • And journalism, of course, is the is one area we get paid to do.

  • It s oh, that's That's basically it.

  • I thought I'd be good at nothing else on Dhe.

  • Here I am.

  • And the fact is, I think, a welcome trouble.

  • Quite another book, Zorba the Greek.

  • You know where life is attacking?

  • It built off looking for trouble, but really, it's more.

  • I honestly think the truth should matter, and people said Yes, of course it should, But I'm afraid we're living in a post from this time.

  • We're effects of what people say they are.

  • You can say you're a man if you're a wound or one.

  • If you remain, you could say you're a particular race when you're not and it doesn't matter.

  • It's too some circle.

  • So in this issue, I think is important.

  • I simply to fight for the truth.

  • But here we're also talking about fighting for justice.

  • For a man that I think has Bean unfairly convicted, palpably, unfairly convicted in what I believe is for us the Dreyfus affair of our times.

  • I think this is really a man being jailed for the crime of being a Catholic priest.

  • For people who are not familiar with the driver's affair, it's ah, famous scapegoating incident where someone was similarly jailed.

  • What would the will we call over here?

  • The cliff notes.

  • What's the compressed version of the Dreyfus affair?

  • Well, you could take almost any of the race based verdicts of America's past, you know, you look a I don't know where.

  • What's a Gregory pick movie to kill them all the years ago took a Mockingbird, this kind of thing where someone is convicted, not for what we've done, but for the tribe or on say that to which they belong.

  • This is a reversion to a sort of barbaric times with me before we thought of the Christian message.

  • Really, the individual is what counts.

  • It's not the parable of the Good Samaritan or that it's the individual that counts.

  • And I think that has Bean totally lost in the jailing of George Hill.

  • It's certainly not, um, limited to the secularism we see rising in Australia.

  • We see that in Canada, in the UK and in England.

  • Excuse me and the United States.

  • I've interviewed Gavin McGinnis and Milo Yiannopoulos.

  • I think both are banned from Australian soil for their aseptic Lee impure opinions.

  • Um, as an outsider, Andrew to the Christian faith, you notice a kind of, ah, a more muscular or assertive anti Christian animus.

  • When I look at the crowds that surrounded Cardinal Pell is, he's going in and out from the van to the to the trials.

  • In the last couple of years, there's definitely a mob rage, a kind of a group think I mean, they don't just let this like him.

  • They despise him.

  • It's You can almost see it in the video leaking out like heat off of, Ah, radiator.

  • And I wonder if that would be true if if you if he was, ah, soccer coach or a public school teacher?

  • No, they look.

  • This is being a carefully a cultivated hostility of fury.

  • A witch hunt, sort of atmosphere has been going on for some time.

  • I mean, I notice when Cardinal Pill was made after picture of Melbourne, which is probably the most left wing city in Australia, and the animus towards him then was remarkable because it was reforming the Christian education system, for instance, making it a little bit more true to the faith and trigger the facts.

  • And the hostility was quite amazing.

  • Now that has gone on for 20 or 30 years.

  • It's really, really built up to an extraordinary degree on.

  • By the time that he came to face committal hearings and then the trial itself, it waas to a an absolute fever point.

  • He had had songs played on the national broadcaster.

  • For instance, imagine NPR on steroids.

  • Their ability was a year in the strange terms because we're much smaller.

  • A $1,000,000,000 a year is a lot of taxpayer.

  • Imagine that.

  • The crowds by then were over the national protest, have played a song parodying him, calling him scum things like that, right?

  • And had later with making allegations against him, for instance, that it fondled boys in a swimming pool.

  • Allocations set thin that they didn't even make it to trial.

  • Yeah, that's that's how bad they were.

  • So by the time he came to the trial itself, we had crowds outside that resembled something like out of the Salem witch trials.

  • Without a shadow of a doubt.

  • I do not exaggerate here, this screaming, the abuse, the spitting, the threats.

  • It was absolutely true.

  • And surveil, in fact, to the trial judge in his In sentencing, Pale after the jury found against him went out of his way to make a comment about how disgraceful that bane because he was shocked.

  • I think so many.

  • The stress was shocked but also unfortunately intimidated on Dhe, which is why it's a few spoke in his defense in what was clearly a preposterous verily, and then later on, a preposterous decision to overturn his appeal you can almost And I'm gonna put ah linked to some of the footage of Patrick often dot Media, You can almost hear the whisper, the seething crucify him.

  • I mean, it's definitely Ah, that was sort of a diabolical escape.

  • Goating independent the fax.

  • And yeah, I think when you say crucify him, it is straight out off the New Testament.

  • It is straight out of, you know, Victor Homo that held the man on its crucify him.

  • It wasn't for what he had done.

  • It was for what he represented in a threat Thio sort of project to remake Australian to remove Christianity from from the cultural influences in this country.

  • A lot of people are not aware that Cardinal Pell is a is a historian.

  • Oxford trained and has a big picture Look at a lot of trends that people who live on Twitter they can't comprehend there just to ah to Vina Ford are too focused on sloganeering.

  • And I I've read enough about the things that Cardinal Pell has addressed, such as the rise of militant Islam, how that has worked out in Australian society.

  • He was ah, skeptic is a skeptic on of the climate change hysteria and certainly represents a kind of conservatism and dynamic orthodoxy that she just Gore's every possible ox you can gore to the leftists who seem to control so much of the narrative there in Australia's Am I Over playing the card?

  • No, I think you're under playing the card, Patrick, because I think you look a Christianity in its history has traditionally bean opposed to religions or so Nia religions is or sort of, you know, almost Messianic beliefs.

  • Communism, for instance, that put the individual underneath the the wishes, the desire, the the great off your big thing like the Fatherland or the international brotherhood, or something that the humans have subservient to the ideology.

  • And in the two examples you mentioned the new religions or the ones that have bean protected or sided with by the militant lift, which include which Islam and global warming, which is a replacement faith.

  • These air to fights to which really, Christianity should be opposed, and he has been opposing them.

  • And I think it's really paying for that, too, particularly his skepticism on global warming.

  • Global warming's in fact, the new animistic faith, and he's called it out from the start, and I think that is driven a lot of the fury against him for a lot of the time.

  • Yeah, I remember him identifying it with with the product of fear, fear as product.

  • So if if you is adjoining cash line, they want the Kingdom of God, but they don't want God in it.

  • If there's no heaven, no God, nothing transcendent, then this world is our only shot at Utopia.

  • So we're gonna build heaven on Earth, and you have to keep this kingdom going by throwing tax dollars at it, which is what the activists seem to want to do with climate changes, though money is somehow going to alter temperature patterns.

  • And I think I think he's so well described the faith aspect of the climate change movement which had to remember it, had rebrand itself because global warming wasn't gaining any traction.

  • Well, I think he's also spotted some remarkable parallels between global warming and Christianity really appreciated the way global warming is phrases almost straight out the Christian scatology except God removed.

  • I mean, it's like repent for the end of the world is night judge, and you have to do you know, dining, fishing.

  • Afraid your token gestures.

  • They don't actually go to anything but symbolize that.

  • You're good.

  • So, you know, sort your plastic from your from your piper and your rubbish means you know, things like that.

  • Even though in Australia, like 1/3 of the council's, although the rabbit goes to ST, it doesn't matter.

  • You gotta do it.

  • What's this ritual things And, of course, then the hand of God or affect the hand of global warming scene behind everything the other day or just this week, we had a national airline, Qantas or supposedly national airline Qantas.

  • Say, look sorry, We've had all these cancellations and delays in the last few months.

  • Global warming, extra research, Of course.

  • The other day, a last resource studies saying global winds were affect 25% down because of global warming requirements stinks.

  • Oh, no.

  • Well, you know, certainly had wings for the last four months.

  • That's global warming, that kind of thing.

  • You know, the mystical this, this devilish presence behind everything that goes bad whether you go more skin cancers or, you know, you didn't get the lottery coming your way.

  • Global war, I wasn't yet the convenient catch all Yeah, absolutely.

  • I recently watched your, uh, walk with what looks like a cell phone camera and cause I wanna I want to slowly get into the allegations by I guess the the act of the accuser's called a In the documents, we've never been able to see a transcript.

  • He's never appeared on video.

  • We were literally because we weren't in the room.

  • We weren't privy to the precise wording of the allegation, and people have to remember Cardinal Pell's in jail because of one person's word that was contradicted by his fellow chorister, who's since deceased, who said he was never sexually abused.

  • So all of it and I read as much of a red.

  • The analysis by Professor John Fenice, I read Justice Mark Weinberg's dissenting opinion and the accuser's all over the map.

  • His story is not is not consistent lots of holes in it.

  • But the justices, in their wisdom who decided to reject his appeal, said that it had the ring of truth.

  • He just seemed toe come off as legitimate.

  • It's it's It's extraordinary, I mean, to reach another historical parallel that should tell us we're exactly the iron we have talked about asylum and, you know, whatever.

  • If you go to Venice, the donor's parents, there's a little gas, a little hole in the wall where people used to be able to do anonymous denunciations of people with severe consequences.

  • This is exactly that.

  • It's just seeing we have had a court process where a man who we are not allowed to identify.

  • And if I and I know who he is and I know a little bit about his background, if I could identify him to you and tell you more about him, be breaking the law, that you would be even more startled.

  • That's why this man is the sole authority there.

  • Things about his background that will make you very much question is were not any that the evidence that he gave against George Pill?

  • We don't let her know the jury's allowed to know you are.

  • I am not nor survived a public, and this is important because what if other people who knew him, which I Wait a minute, this this doesn't gel with what I know about him or with the facts?

  • You know this is justice in secret.

  • To some extent Obviously it was Mercury.

  • That alone is suspicious, but it's particularly suspicious, given that, as you say, this is one person's word against all the other witnesses against all the other evidence and more particularly against what the other guy that he says was right with him to car stirs right that once at the same time by George Bill.

  • The other guy told this man twice.

  • I wasn't assaulted and get this guy's believe me is believed.

  • Despite so many problems with his evidence, he said, I was assaulted by Cardinal Pill just after Mass.

  • Despite the fact the evidence shows, George Pill was usually in the front of the cathedral saying goodbye to the parishioners.

  • This assault is supposed to have taken place within 656 minutes after the end of Mess, he was at the top.

  • People swore on Earth that was their duty.

  • But it's the emcee, the off the mess never to leave aside.

  • And he couldn't remember when he lasted, right so that it's supposed to have happened in an open room with an unlocked door.

  • When other said was normally very busy.

  • He does.

  • He rapes two guys at once who he didn't know for only knew one of them was the son of a policeman before, only knew who was fighting outside.

  • Yeah, really.

  • Only this is grooming involved.

  • He did this out of character in so many years.

  • Nothing, Nothing.

  • There was nothing.

  • No previous for this, too.

  • No post either.

  • There were consistencies with the evidence.

  • Like the guy said.

  • The accusers said We went in there, My make my friend and I, we found also why we drank.

  • It was rib.

  • No, it was white.

  • He said this happened in such a such a time now.

  • It was a different period.

  • Completely.

  • Check the rig.

  • So he altered his evidence to suit the only times George Hill was actually there.

  • There's so many inconsistencies.

  • But when I you mentioned I take the take the walk What I found most extraordinary about the decision by two or three judges to dismiss George Pills appeal while still repeat, this attack allegedly took place five or six minutes after the end of the mass.

  • Uh huh.

  • From the man's own evidence, he accuses on evidence from us all that time he was not inside the cathedral being right.

  • He was outside the cathedral in a position off choristers by is on evidence.

  • How could he have bean?

  • Rightful?

  • What the judges said must have been five minutes in a five a six minute window before the secretary became so full of people moving things to have from the century.

  • Yes, what do you mean inside for five minutes being right when he was outside in the position of choruses after the mess, walking up the aisle around the side of the cathedral dance.

  • But Gheit, which would have taken three and 1/2 minutes by my county.

  • Yeah, and then you see, somehow no one noticing ran half the way back.

  • We walked after way back.

  • We need to do a side gate, then came around and into the secretary and then looked around.

  • Fancy wine.

  • Drank it.

  • What set?

  • Two more minutes.

  • You could not has happened.