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  • >> Live from Las Vegas, it's theCUBE!

  • Covering Dell Technologies World 2019.

  • Brought to you by Dell Technologies

  • and its ecosystem partners.

  • >> Hello everyone.

  • Welcome back to theCUBE's live coverage

  • here in Las Vegas for Dell Technologies World.

  • I'm John Furrier with Dave Vellante.

  • Dave, we've got Pat Gelsinger back on theCUBE.

  • He stopped by yesterday, did a flyby after his keynote

  • to kick off our intro section.

  • He's back for the sit-down. >> (laughs)

  • Welcome back.

  • >> I can't get enough of you, Pat.

  • >> CEO of VMware, Pat Gelsinger.

  • >> Yeah, I love to photobomb you guys, so it was great.

  • >> Anytime.

  • I know you're super busy, business is going great.

  • And you know, what a three years its been.

  • I remember the keynote you gave at VMworld a few years ago.

  • This was really on a time where,

  • I would call it the seminal moment for you

  • because you saw a vision,

  • and we've talked privately and on theCUBE about,

  • and you gave this speech of

  • this is going to be the preferred future,

  • and it was very visionary-oriented,

  • but it ended up happening.

  • That became the beginning of a run for VMware.

  • And since then, you've been kind of chipping away

  • and filling in all the tech pieces,

  • the business model, and deals,

  • with Amazon and now Azure and others.

  • How are you feeling about it?

  • What's the highlights?

  • What's your perspective of where we are now?

  • What's the notable accomplishments?

  • >> Well you know, it's been just great.

  • And you think about the run that we've been on where we,

  • five years ago, we described a hybrid future.

  • And you know, most people said, what are you, stupid?

  • And you know, student body right to the public cloud.

  • And now everybody is starting to understand

  • the difficulty of replatforming, right?

  • And says wow, this is really hard.

  • I can spend millions and millions of dollars,

  • in fact, one customer's estimate

  • was that they were going to spend almost $1 billion

  • replatforming all their applications to the cloud.

  • And when they got them cloud-native, what do they have?

  • The same apps.

  • So imagine going to your board and saying

  • I'm going to spend $1 billion just so I can be on the cloud,

  • but give you no new business value.

  • You've got to be kidding!

  • And that's why this hybrid future,

  • and as I like to joke, Andy, five years ago,

  • Andy Jassy said if you're running your own data center,

  • you're stupid.

  • And Pat said if you're using Amazon, you're stupid.

  • And now we're doing bro hugs on stage with each other.

  • (laughter)

  • >> And by the way, hybrid,

  • you picked that trend that was right.

  • Multi-cloud, though, came out of more a reality,

  • less of an operating vision,

  • 'cause hybrid cloud, you know, you saw the dots,

  • connected those dots,

  • but I think multi-cloud was much more of just a reality.

  • When people started to realize

  • that as I started doing stuff on premises,

  • wow, I got native workloads on the cloud,

  • and there are benefits for being in the cloud first

  • for certain workloads.

  • But then the multi-cloud thing comes up.

  • >> And I think everybody has started to realize,

  • and I really, as I would say,

  • I think every CIO needs a three-cloud strategy.

  • Making their private data centers

  • into a proper operating private cloud.

  • And some of this week's announcements,

  • I'm sure we'll get back to those a little bit,

  • to me are just a huge dimension.

  • You know, VMware Cloud on Dell EMC,

  • you know, a huge accelerant

  • of making your private data center

  • op like a private cloud, right, at scale.

  • Second, you need a primary public cloud partner.

  • And I think most people should pick a primary.

  • Not one, a primary,

  • and then a secondary cloud, right,

  • you know, as their partners.

  • And then you have your range of SAS offerings.

  • And I think that needs to be the core, right,

  • of every IT, CIO's strategy for the future.

  • And our objective is to create an environment

  • between what we're doing with VMware Cloud Foundation,

  • and now VMware Cloud on Dimension.

  • What we're doing with Amazon,

  • our preferred partner for the public cloud offering.

  • What we announced this week with Azure, right?

  • Our 4000 other cloud partners, including, you know,

  • very successful relationship with IBM.

  • And saying, okay, that's your infrastructure.

  • And the bulk of your workloads

  • should run on a VMware environment

  • that we can operate across that,

  • with the same tools, the same interfaces,

  • the same security, the same management tools,

  • and then use the other cloud services

  • as they bring you business value.

  • You're a fan of Tensorflow?

  • Go for it, baby.

  • Right?

  • You know, and use it in your app.

  • You love function as a service with Lambda, go for it.

  • But the bulk of your workload should lay in here

  • and use these where they have business value.

  • >> And to follow up on the three legs of the cloud stool,

  • the CIO's legs, number three is for what?

  • Is it for risk mitigation, exit strategies,

  • or more specific best-of-breed, horses-for-courses

  • type of workloads.

  • >> Yes, yes, and yes.

  • To some degree, really it's saying,

  • nobody wants to say, I'm only in one.

  • Right?

  • Nobody wants to lock in for it.

  • Also you know, clearly, hey, you know,

  • these are technologies that break.

  • You get more resilience that way, right?

  • You want to be able to manage your cost environments.

  • There's clearly this view of

  • okay, you know, if I can do one, two, and three,

  • I can do N.

  • 'Cause most people are also going to end up picking,

  • oh, I'm in Hong Kong.

  • Okay, I need a Hong Kong cloud,

  • because my data can only go there.

  • You know, I'm in Malaysia,

  • oh, they require all data to be there.

  • 'Cause a practicality, if you're a big enterprise company,

  • it's not just going to be three.

  • You're going to need to be four, five, and six as well,

  • for regional.

  • And then you're going to acquire somebody,

  • they're using a different partner.

  • It really says, build an operational environment

  • that works that way.

  • Give myself business flexibility.

  • I have application flexibility, and if I've done that,

  • I really can move to the other environments

  • that my business requires.

  • >> I think one of the reasons

  • why you guys have been so successful,

  • if I go back five or six years,

  • I remember you laying out the market,

  • the market segmentation,

  • you're obviously close to customers.

  • You're a very clear thinker.

  • You've obviously looked at the market for multi-cloud.

  • How do you describe that,

  • how do you look at the TAM, how big is it?

  • >> Well you know, if you think about cloud today, right,

  • we're closing in on $100 billion of the public cloud.

  • You add SAS to it, you know,

  • you got almost another $100 billion at that level.

  • And you know, the overall data center market

  • is probably on the order of, you know, $1 trillion-ish.

  • >> Give or take. (laughs)

  • >> Yeah, on that order.

  • And then you know, you throw the operations costs

  • inside of it,

  • you're probably looking at something

  • that's, you know, on the order of $2 trillion as well.

  • So this is a big market, right?

  • You know, part of the excitement that people are seeing

  • in this cloud environment,

  • is that they can just go faster.

  • And as I described in the keynote today,

  • we want to enable every one of our customers

  • to stop looking down and look up, right?

  • Spend less time looking down at the infrastructure.

  • We're going to operationalize it,

  • we're going to automate it for you,

  • we're going to take care of it

  • so that every one of your engineers

  • can become software engineers

  • building app and business value.

  • >> I want to ask you on that point,

  • because one of the things, I was talkin' last night,

  • the analyst said at the briefing or the reception was,

  • having a debate with one of the strategists in Dell,

  • and I'm like, look it,

  • outcomes are great at the top of the stack.

  • Looking up, you want outcomes.

  • But during the OSI stack days, no one cared about outcomes.

  • It was either token ring or Ethernet.

  • Speed won, so certain things have to be speed-driven,

  • world-class, and keep getting better.

  • And so that's what we're seeing

  • as an infrastructure requirement.

  • Horizontal scalability, operational scale.

  • So that's a speeds and feeds game.

  • So the outcome there is faster (laughs), and simpler.

  • Up the stack, data becomes a big part of that.

  • That, more, is where we see outcome.

  • Do you see it that way, Pat?

  • Because you know, again, infrastructure is often,

  • that's how they said it on stage.

  • We want to have whole new-paved,

  • new infrastructure for this generation,

  • essentially a refresh of infrastructure.

  • Okay.

  • Well, what does it look like?

  • It's got to be fast, got to be flexible, software-defined.

  • Your thoughts?

  • >> So you know, clearly, I mean,

  • what we're trying to do

  • is we build this common infrastructure layer.

  • And build an environment that allows you to be fast,

  • but also allows you to be in control and cost-effective.

  • Because if you would say, oh, I just want to be fast,

  • ah, that doesn't work, right?

  • We still have limited budgets, and you know,

  • people, someday there's a CFO day of reckoning.

  • But you also have to realize,

  • part of the hybrid cloud laws that I described this morning,

  • you know, one of those is the laws of physics, right?

  • Hey, my factory automation for robotics

  • needs to be 40 milliseconds, period.

  • And if I round-trip to the cloud at 150 milliseconds,

  • guess what?

  • (laughs)

  • >> Latency.

  • >> Right.

  • You know, my image recognition for being able to detect

  • my autonomous vehicle is less than 50 milliseconds.

  • I can't round-trip to the cloud.

  • It has to be fast, right,

  • but we also need to be able to push more of this data,

  • more of the inference of my machine learning and AI

  • closer to the edge.

  • That's why, you know, you heard Michael talk about,

  • and Jeff talk about this explosion of data.

  • Most of that data will be at the edge.

  • Why?

  • Because every camera, you know, every sensor

  • will be developing it,

  • and I'm not going to round-trip it to the cloud

  • because of economics.

  • I can't afford to take all that data to the cloud.

  • It's not just the latency.

  • >> Latency matters.

  • >> Yeah.

  • And so for that, so I can't take it to the cloud,

  • I got to be able to compute locally.

  • I got to be able to apply the inference

  • of my AI models locally,

  • but you know, I also then need to scale

  • aspects of cloud as well.

  • My third law, of course, was regulation,