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Translator: Leslie Gauthier Reviewer: Krystian Aparta
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Bryn Freedman: So you keep talking about leadership
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as a real crisis of conformity.
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Can you explain to us what you mean by that?
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What do you see as a crisis of conformity?
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Halla Tómasdóttir: I think it's a crisis of conformity
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when we continue to do business and lead in the way we always have,
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yet the evidence is overwhelming
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that the world needs us to change our ways.
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So let's look a little bit at that evidence.
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Science has told us that we're facing a climate crisis,
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yet 40 percent of board directors
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don't think climate belongs in the boardroom.
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And we have kids marching in the streets now,
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asking us to be accountable for their future.
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We have a crisis of inequality.
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We have Yellow Jackets not just in the streets of France,
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but all over the world,
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and yet we continue to see examples
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of businesses and other leaders fueling that anger.
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BF: Do you think the pitchforks are coming?
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HT: I definitely think this is not sustainable.
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And the reason why it's so difficult
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for us to deal with these complicated crises that are interrelated
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is that we are at the lowest levels of trust we've ever been at.
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In the UK, three percent of people trust their government
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to solve the Brexit crisis,
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and that was in December.
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I think it's probably gone down since then.
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BF: What do you think new leadership actually looks like?
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HT: We need courageous leaders,
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yet they have to be humble.
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And they have to be guided by a moral compass,
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and the moral compass is the combination of having a social purpose --
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you can't have your license to operate anymore
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without a purpose that contributes to society,
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but what, to me, has been missing from that dialogue is a set of principles.
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We cannot just define why we exist,
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we have to define how we're going to do business
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and how we're going to lead.
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And to us, that has to be to solve these imminent crises:
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the climate crisis,
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the crisis of inequality
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and the crisis of trust.
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So at The B Team,
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we embrace sustainability, equality and accountability as our principles.
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BF: Do you think this whole question of purpose is really window dressing --
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they're saying what they think people want to hear,
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but they're actually not making the fundamental changes
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that are necessary?
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HT: A lot of people feel that way,
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and I think there's a growing momentum behind that.
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So I think the world is calling for responsible leadership now,
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and any leader who wants to be around for the 21st century
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really needs to start thinking courageously and holistically
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how they're going to be part of the solution
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and not window-dress anymore.
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You have to do it for real now.
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BF: Do you see anybody out there who's doing it
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in a way that you think is actually effective
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and has a real, long-term impact?
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HT: Fortunately, we have some great leaders out there.
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And just to give one example,
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Emmanuel Faber, who's one of the newest members of The B Team,
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he's the CEO of Danone,
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the world's largest yogurt-maker and major food company --
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a real global company.
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He's so committed to sustainability
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that he's not only changing the ways of his own business,
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but his entire supply chain.
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He's so committed to equality that when he took on as CEO
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and he said gender balance matters,
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he created a gender-balanced executive team
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and gave men and women equal maternity and paternity leave.
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He's so committed to accountability
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that he turned his US operations into a B Corporation.
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Now many of you may not know what that is,
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but that's a company that holds itself responsible
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for not just profit but its impact on people and the planet,
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and transparently reports on their performance on all of that.
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It's the largest B Corp in the world.
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So to me, that's holistic, courageous leadership,
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and it's really the vision we all need to hold.
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BF: Is this "Back to the Future"?
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I mean, I wonder, when I think about companies --
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Anheuser-Busch comes to mind in America --
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a 100-year-old company that invested in its community,
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that gave a living wage
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before it ended up, you know, losing and getting sold.
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Are we really looking now for companies that are global and community citizens,
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or is that something that is not even useful anymore?
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HT: Well, you can do this for the reason that it's risky, actually,
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to continue without doing the right thing now.
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You can't attract the right talent,
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you can't attract customers
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and increasingly, you won't be able to attract capital.
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You might do it for risk reasons,
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you might do it for business opportunity reasons,
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because this is where the growth is,
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which is why many leaders are doing the right thing.
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But at the end of the day,
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we need to ask ourselves:
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"Who are we holding ourselves accountable for?"
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And if that isn't the next generation,
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I don't know who.
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So I want to just make very clear,
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because we tend to think about leadership
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as only those who sit in positions of power.
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To me, leadership is not at all like that.
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There's a leader inside every single one of us,
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and our most important work in life is to release that leader.
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And I think one of the greatest global examples we have
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of someone who didn't --
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no one gave her power --
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is the 16-year-old girl called Greta Thunberg.
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She's from Sweden,
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and a few years ago, she really became --
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she has Asperger's,
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and she became passionate about our climate crisis --
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learned everything about it.
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And faced with the evidence,
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she just felt so disappointed in her leadership
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that she started striking in front of the Swedish parliament.
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And now she has started a global movement,
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and hundreds and thousands of school kids are out in the streets
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asking us to hold ourselves accountable for their future.
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No one gave her that authority,
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and she now speaks to the leaders of the world, heads of state,
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and really is impacting the world.
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So I really think that when we think about leadership today,
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it can't be defined to those in positions of power
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though they have disproportionately greater responsibility.
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But all of us need to think about,
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"What am I doing?"
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"How am I contributing?"
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And we need to release that leader inside
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and actually start making the positive impact
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this world is calling for right now.
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BF: But we have such hierarchical leadership.
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I mean, I understand what you're saying --
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it's nice to release the leader inside --
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but in these corporations,
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the truth is, it's extremely hierarchical.
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What can companies do
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to create less vertical and more horizontal relationships?
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HT: Well, I'm a big believer and I've long been passionate
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about closing the gender gap,
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and I really believe gender-balanced leadership is the way to go
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in order to embrace a leadership style that has been shown to be more powerful,
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and that's when both men and women embrace
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both masculine and feminine values.
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It actually is proven in research
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that that's the most effective leadership style.
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But I'm increasingly now thinking about how we close the generational gap,
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because look at these young children in the streets around the world --
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they're asking us to lead.
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Kofi Annan used to say, "You're never too young to lead."
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And then he would add,
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"Or too old to learn."
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And I think we have now entered this era
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where we need the wisdom of those with experience,
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but we need the digital natives of the young generation
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to co-mentor or to mentor us just as much as we can help
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with wisdom from the older people.
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So it's a new reality,
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and these old, sort of hierarchical ways to think about things,
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they're increasingly coming under pressure in this reality.
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BF: And you've actually called that the hubris syndrome.
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Can you talk about that?
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HT: Well, yes, I think hubris is our cancer in leadership.
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That's when leaders think they know it all,
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can do it all, have all the answers
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and don't think they need to surround themselves
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with people who will make them better,
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which to me would, in some cases, be more women and younger people
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and people who are diverse and have different opinions in general.
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Hubris syndrome is so present in leadership still,
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and we know many examples of them,
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I don't need to name them. And the problem with that --
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(Laughter)
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Yeah, we know them -- all over the world,
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not just in this country.
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But that kind of leadership doesn't unleash leaders in others.
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No one person,
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or no one sector even has the solutions we now need to come up with --
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the creativity and collaboration we need.
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The bold and the brave leadership we need to come up with solutions
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that cross government, private sector, civil society, young people, older people,
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people of all different backgrounds coming together is the way
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to solve the issues that are in front of us.
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BF: Do you see that kind of leadership coming from the bottom-up
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or the top-down,
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or do you think a crisis is going to force us
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into a reexamination of all of this?
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HT: Well, as someone who lived through the most infamous financial meltdown
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in my home country, Iceland,
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I hope we don't need another one to learn or to wake up.
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But I do see that we can't choose one or the other.
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We do have to transform the way we lead --
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from the top, the boardroom, the CEOs --
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we really do have to transform that,
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but increasingly, we will transform that,
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because we have these social movements coming from the bottom
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and throughout society.
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And the solutions exist.
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The only thing that's missing is will.
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So if we just all find a way to embrace a moral compass of our own
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to figure out why we exist and how we're going to lead,
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and if we embrace courage and humility in equal amounts,
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each one of us can be part of this 10-year period
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where we can dramatically transform the world we live in,
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and make it just,
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and make it about humanity and not just the financial markets.
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BF: Well, we have a lot of people here who I bet have questions for you,
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and we have a few minutes for questions,
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so is there anybody that would like to ask Halla a question?
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Audience: Hello, my name is Cheryl.
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I'm an aspiring leader,
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and I have a question about how you lead when you have no influence.
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If I'm just an analyst,
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and I want to speak to senior management
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about a change that I feel will affect the whole company,
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how do I go about changing their minds
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when they feel as if they've had relationships that are set,
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that their way of business is set?
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How do you change minds when you have no influence?
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HT: Well, thank you very much for that fantastic question.
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So sometimes people at the top won't listen,
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but it's interesting that with the low trust we have in society right now,
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the greatest trust we have
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is actually between the employee and the employer,
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according to recent research.
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So I think that relationship may be the most powerful way
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to actually transform the way we do things.
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So I would start by trying to build a coalition for your good idea.
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And I don't know a single leader today who will not listen to a concern
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that many of their employees hold.
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I'll give you an example from another B Team leader,
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Marc Benioff, the CEO of Salesforce.
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He's really been outspoken on homelessness in San Francisco,
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on LGBTQI rights,
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and all of the things that he's been standing up for,
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he does because his employees care about them.