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  • around the world, tough measures are being imposed.

  • Spain's too big state of emergency will mean strict restrictions on movement.

  • France in Germany, band mass gatherings last week.

  • Italy remains incomplete.

  • Lock down now reporting 21,000 cases.

  • However, Britain is almost alone in not enacting any extreme measures, even as President Trump has added us to the list of countries now banned from traveling to America and is considering all options when it comes to domestic travel as well.

  • Many Stevenson has our first report tonight.

  • Europe.

  • Now the epicenter of the Corona crisis, the hospital's full the street's empty, drastic measures taken elsewhere.

  • While in Britain, life keeps carrying on largely uninterrupted Boris Johnson's words.

  • This week, sobering.

  • Many more families are going to lose loved ones before their time today.

  • The reality for families losing people they love.

  • As N hs, England announced the number of deaths in the U.

  • K had almost doubled.

  • 21 patients diagnosed with the Corona virus have now died while inside North Middlesex Hospital, a baby believed to have become the world's youngest patient with Corona virus within minutes of being born testing positive hospital, later confirming the newborn and their mother both had the virus staff he treated them are now self isolating.

  • We are continually fallen, following the evidence and scientifically right and that has bean.

  • Children seem to be less at risk compared to, you know, older people, people, online health conditions.

  • But my thoughts are happy completely with the family.

  • As the Corona virus crisis intensifies this morning, a significant step for a low cost airline jet to canceling all flights to mainland Spain, the Bali, Eriks and Canary Islands.

  • Some planes were grounded while passengers were on board and ready to take off.

  • Others turned back to the UK mid air.

  • The dramatic move came a Spanish streets looked more like ghost towns as they prepare for a national locked down here expected to be told to only leave the house for food or medical supplies with more than 5000 cases detected, making it the second worst affected country in Europe after Italy.

  • In Rome, they're rushing to build new intensive care units in hospitals as the country continues to live under lock down.

  • More than 21,000 people have now been infected and over 1000 have died.

  • An aging population and a shortage of hospital beds have proven fatal for Italy has Denmark, Poland and the Czech Republic shut their borders, a tough starts to in New Zealand, where everyone arriving in the country will be asked to self isolate for 14 days.

  • Meanwhile, in Washington, Donald Trump said the UK and Ireland would be added to the list of countries included in the U.

  • S travel ban.

  • As the president admitted he, too, been tested for Corona virus.

  • I had my temperature taken coming into the room.

  • You did good.

  • That's compared to what we're Debbie's world looking good.

  • You also took I also the test and I decided I should.

  • Based on the press conference yesterday, people were asking, Did I take the test?

  • I don't know.

  • Whatever attacks a day or two days, whatever.

  • Whatever it is, they send it to a lab.

  • While the epidemic in China appears to be slowing, the spread of Corona virus has accelerated in Europe.

  • Just how to contain the crisis now rests on the shoulders of governments across the world.

  • We'll hear more questions are being raised over the British government strategy, with pressure rising from a number of groups, including some leading scientists in school leaders for the UK to be taking Maur drastic measures and sooner yes, him in Brown a new day and the pandemic continues to grow at an alarming rate.

  • Over 1100 people infected, almost 40,000 people tested Deaths have nearly doubled in just a day amidst growing lockdowns and white protesting across the world.

  • Britain has been criticized for not taking the same action after early, reluctant to take drastic action.

  • Next week, the government is expected to introduce new legislation that includes the limit on public gatherings.

  • Life in the UK as we know it is about to change, but the government steps up its efforts.

  • There are question marks over how effectively it's learning from approaches taken abroad and over the implications of doing so.

  • This week, Channel Four News reported on the Chinese surveillance at credited with helping to contain the world's biggest outbreak off coded 19 AP records, The name Temperatures I D number and movements of users and gives each one a color code used big data to assess each user's risk and check if citizens have come into contact with those infected.

  • But the AP becomes of controversy in China personal data, which reportedly shared with the police and in South Korea.

  • There is also a huge privacy concerns over whether the surrender of private data to the state is a worthwhile trade to stop the outbreak of a deadly virus.

  • And this is not the question facing the U.

  • K.

  • Now Channel four news is seen a paper bye leader, Oxford academics presenting to launch a similar appear in the UK on We understand that paper has been presented to policymakers.

  • This is how such a nap would work if everyone had it here.

  • Subject has the Corona virus but does not yet to know it or show any symptoms in their day to day life.

  • If they come into contact with other people at home, on public transport or even at work, when their symptoms begin to show, they can request the test and if it turns out positive, or the people they had interaction with our immediately notified by the AP and told to self isolate and get tested, the place that they have bean have been decontaminated.

  • The paper itself also recognizes that it requires widespread trust from citizens nervous about how government uses our data misuse of people's data on We've seen the use of big data Thio do predictive policing and detain people really for no reason.

  • So there's a concern that although this data is being perhaps collected for a legitimate purpose, that it could potentially eventually be misused in ways that we can't predict right now.

  • Another big problem is the success of the APP in China involves widespread testing, something the U K government is refusing to do.

  • It is no longer needed for us to identify every case on we will move from having testing mainly done in homes and our patients and walk walk in centers to a situation where people who are self who are remaining at home do not need testing on.

  • We will pivot all of the testing capacity toe identifying people in hospitals who have got symptoms.

  • The policy is making it impossible to know the true number of cases in the U.

  • K.

  • And also goes against the guidance of the World Health Organization.

  • The government here is trying to leverage herd immunity.

  • This is when the resistance to an infection builds up in a population as the virus spreads.

  • They believe this, who allow them to bring in harsher measures at a time they will be most effective.

  • It's all about taking the right steps at the right time, but your best respond and manage the impact of the virus, and so we have the best possible outcomes for a population today, a senior government source told Channel Four News.

  • They've been inundated with brilliant ideas to help, but it's coded 19 spreads.

  • The country is in a race against time to deliver the ideas that work.

  • We contacted the Department of Health to ask if they had considered APP based infection.

  • Control is part of their response to the outbreak.

  • They have yet to reply.

  • Well, joining me now from south London is Dr Clare Gerada, who was chairperson of the counsel of the Royal College of General Practitioners from 2010 to 2013.

  • She tested positive for the virus last week and is now in isolation.

  • Thanks so much for coming on the show, Claire.

  • Tell me, what was your experience like, when did you get sick and when did you test?

  • Positive?

  • Well, it's Bean pretty grim.

  • I have to be honest.

  • It's being like a very bad dose of the flu, which is more or less what it is.

  • I got tested early last week, and I was found to be positive on Thursday.

  • If the illness itself is came on very quickly, haven't been completely well coming from New York.

  • I then got a very high temperature, a sore throat, a dry cough on that was really for about 48 hours, maybe 50 56 hours and then the end of it.

  • We came on very quickly.

  • And though I'm now very tired, the temperature stop very quickly.

  • Symptoms recited on dime now, Well, on my way to recovery.

  • So, you know, I'm a case that's come out the other end.

  • I have to say I've got no underlying health conditions, though I am a at risk group.

  • I'm 60.

  • Uh, and I've managed it with paracetamol lemon, a yogurt and latterly chicken soup.

  • Right.

  • I'm very happy to hear that you're you're better.

  • But were you scared while you will?

  • Yes, I was.

  • But you're always scared when you're ill.

  • It is frightening being unwell on dhe.

  • I think we have to take that into account when we're asking people to be unwell and at the same time, isolated.

  • I think we might need to rethink that.

  • It was very helpful having a phone call from the hospital just to check on how I watched that the people who did the testing, they rang twice, which was really I can't tell you how helpful it waas and of course, as a GP.

  • My colleagues contacted me, but I think going forward we will have GPS that will be doing home.

  • Visiting service is clearly for the sick.

  • Not, you know, we're having to Taylor everything.

  • But I would like to say something about testing.

  • We don't test for seasonal flu in general practice, but we can still tell you approximately we have surveillance.

  • It's because you're not testing.

  • Doesn't mean that nobody is counting the number of cases.

  • They're counted two different ways.

  • So going forward, I don't think I would be tested now.

  • I'd be told Go home, rest up.

  • If I get short of breath, then contact okay with that.

  • So it again would you be okay with that?

  • If you were ill again not to get tested just to stay at home briefly.

  • Don't tous test for the flu.

  • I mean, we've never has GPS.

  • We've never tested for influenza.

  • So if a patient comes to us with symptoms of influenza, we say to them, I obvious it's influenza.

  • Go home.

  • These are what you have to do.

  • If this happens, contact me.

  • But otherwise it's a 2 to 4 day illness.

  • This is what you're going to feel like.

  • Ex wife said It doesn't mean we don't have surveillance practices.

  • Doesn't like.

  • So I think we've got to be absolutely clear because we're not testing now.

  • Doesn't mean that we're not modeling.

  • How many cases there are.

  • Okay.

  • Clear.

  • Thank you very much.

  • I'm glad to see that you're recovering.

  • On incoming now is the former Northwest regional director of public health and former president of the U.

  • K.

  • Faculty of Public Health Professor Doctor John Ashton.

  • John.

  • Great to have you on the program.

  • You heard what Claire had to say.

  • That she's gone through it.

  • She seems quite relaxed about the government policy as you got a point on.

  • Well, good clothes getting better.

  • But on the testing, we've got a real problem.

  • The failure to test systematically onto d'oh sample surveys off off the virus in the community is what's got us to this place.

  • Now let me say this mass.

  • With the doubling off the number of deaths today, we're in a grave situation.

  • We're in an exponential upward curve now, leading to large numbers of deaths.

  • Were just a couple of weeks behind Italy.

  • Almost certainly we caught the systemic failure of leadership on action on dhe.

  • They were drifting towards an authoritarianism because of the failure off governments off the chief medical officer on doff, the scientific advisor to take the right course of action.

  • I think we now at a point where because we need to engage properly with the public and there's no sign of that at all.

  • Boris Johnson, I think, needs to consider his position.

  • Well, hang on a minute.

  • What he wanted so much to be prime minister on.

  • He's not up to the job, and I think he needs to go along with this.

  • It's OK, Jonathan.

  • I don't want to protest.

  • You don't politicize around.

  • Come in.

  • He's a man who would carry respect.

  • Okay, John, let's stick to the signs.

  • John.

  • Let's stick to the signs.

  • John John, Let's this is Stick to the sign of a political matter politic.

  • The government is saying, let me just say something.

  • The government is saying that they're following the advice of their scientists.

  • They've considered this very carefully, and they say by delaying the tactic of delay allowing some infections to take place, they will get this herd immunity at the end of the day.

  • Therefore saving more lives.

  • This is a scientific position.

  • So what's your scientific view that this is flawed?

  • The science is a narrow science.

  • This we need.

  • We need total multi disciplinary science here, not just biological science.

  • This is about culture change.

  • It's about the community being in the lead of this because they're gonna have to carry the brunt of this.

  • For the chief scientist to make these suggestions about allowing the virus to go through the population, to get to herd immunity with deaths that might be prevented is unethical and it's unacceptable.

  • And he should go.

  • But he is basing that judgment on his science.

  • So we've got an argument within the scientific community hitting people like you against people like him.

  • Who are we to Bernie?

  • He he represents a narrow science on.

  • We need a broad, multi disciplinary, 360 degree science.

  • We need the lived experience off the communities who are gonna have to handle this thing.

  • There will not be enough capacity in our hospitals.

  • We would need about eight times as many intensive care beds as we've got.

  • As this peaks in May.

  • Maybe.

  • Or June.

  • We will not have it.

  • People who are really ill are gonna have to be Millis at home.

  • We need to be engaging with them.

  • This cannot be sorted by three men in London telling people what to do.

  • It's got to be social mobilization by people who interested on can be believed.

  • And I think Rory Stewart's now got a CZ Prime Minister.

  • You're going to find us.

  • I don't want to do politics.

  • I want to do science in 20 seconds on.

  • Should we go to extreme measures now?

  • Way will go half waiters, extreme measures.

  • But this is a political situation.

  • It's a war city.

  • Okay.

  • All right, John, you gotta leave it.

  • A professor, Doctor John Ashton.

  • Thanks, Claire.

  • Getting back to you Just heard what he had to say.

  • I think it's briefly right.

  • Briefing Matt.

  • It's politics and science and number two, I think, John, I'm glad John's not leading our response.

  • A cobra.

  • I'm glad that John is not involved in the decision making tree because John is ill informed on.

  • I think what he's doing now is doing the exact opposite of what leading medical profession should be doing, which has been looking and supporting the government, supporting the decisions that they make, which is the right decisions at the right time for us, Right?

  • Clare Gerada.

  • It is very unsettling to hear experts in the medical profession arguing publicly that this about the right response.

  • I'm not arguing about the right response.

  • I'm saying the response is the current response that our government is giving us.

  • We're not with Cobra every day.

  • We're not receiving the information.

  • We're not with those scientists.

  • The model is the statistician.

  • The epidemiological geologists think clinicians were not in that room.

  • They're in that room.

  • At the end of the day, they come out to see you gotta leave it there trying to cut you short.

  • But we've run out of time.

  • Claire Gerada.